Classic Alfa Forums

Hi everyone

I'm a new member of this forum (thanks for inviting me Shrew) and wanted to see what pearls of wisdom I can steal from your collective experience.....

I've had quite a few race cars, one of them a 33 16v, and have just agreed to buy another 16v. So, any ideas on proven mods would be interesting to hear.

THE CURRENT SPEC

ENGINE

Standard, running the factory computer / limiter etc. New belts, water pump etc.

FUEL INJECTION

Standard

GEARBOX

Standard - No LSD - From a 1.5 33 (better than the 16v box, whose ratios are too long for racing (unless I'm going to run the car at Le Mans !)

SUSPENSION

Koni Yellow damper (Front) GAZ dampers (Rear) Cut down, stiffer springs (poundage unknown)

CAGE

Full cage (Alloy)

BODYWORK

Lightweight, stripped out doors, lightweight bonnet, Tailgate removed - fixed rear window and lightweight boot panel instead.Plastic windows all round. Lexan screen.

STEERING

Standard, with PAS disconnected.

MY PLANS FOR THE CAR

PHASE 1

1 LSD
2 Solid Tappets (to liberate a few more revs)
3 Relocate battery to the rear
4 Fabricated exhaust manifold
5 Pad cage
6 Review suspension

PHASE 2

1 OMEX Brain, adjust fuelling / timing etc
2 Engine refresh
3 Lightened flywheel

PHASE 3 (Only possible if I am successful in my medical negligence claim !)

1 AHM 2.0 conversion, supercharged
2 Big brakes / 17" wheels
3 Set up for slicks
4 Rear wing, new aero kit, carbon panels


So, thoughts, gentlemen ?

Well, the AHM kit is a dream only for me.

You may have seen them already but take a look at some of his most recent videos on you tube, he has been racing in classic thunder.

I've never driven a 16v, but didn't some of the old class f engines claim to be 160bhp? In. Very light car that still not bad.

Veesix75 wrote:Well, the AHM kit is a dream only for me.

You may have seen them already but take a look at some of his most recent videos on you tube, he has been racing in classic thunder.

I've never driven a 16v, but didn't some of the old class f engines claim to be 160bhp? In. Very light car that still not bad.

Yes the AHM conversion is a pipe dream for me and would only be possible with a significant amount of positive cash-flow !

I'll take a look at Adies latest videos - yes some of the class F cars were really quick....

Cheers !

Hi Mate

Glad to see you putting the post up, and hopefully now those pearls will be dropping in very very soon.


My two penneth would be something like this,


The best Normally Aspirated 16v's i know are the BLS 33, the Chris Snowdon 33 race cars, and Anthony George's race 33.

All are getting close if not a full 2.0, steel cranks and good rods a must for those high power reaching revs, at their level anyway.

lightened flywheel, either a reqworked 16v one or if you end up going full ecu then swap it out for an older 8v without the trigger wheel and lighten that, its already a kilo lighter as stock, then add the small aftermarket trigger wheel to the front pulley instead.

Worked and Big Valve heads, very tricky to do, but key to big NA power from a 16v, and cams of course are just plain hard to get hold of and expensive.

Maybe a clean up, smoothing, of the angled inlet route, some matched porting and a cam reprofile is a good place to start with the heads when budget smacks a bit hard!

Junk the stock inlet manifold, go either conversion to carbs with electronic ignition controller such as Nodiz, Omex 100 and above, or if budget allows full throttle bodies and a full ecu a'la Omex 600 etc

If you're breathing in better you'd better get it out better, so performance manifold and system once you know roughly where your engine build is going to take you (and i'm not saying a word! )


theres some quick things to get the ball rolling off top of my head.


speaking of getting the ball rolling, i know someone who has a block, crank, and 89mm JE piston set for sale? which will give you an 1800 and a bit, might be useful to chat about?

Hi chap welcome to the mad house

It's my 1.8 that I'm selling. If your interested have a look in the parts section and pm me your number
Sounds like you know your way round a 33. They are great cars !

petrolhead wrote:Hi Mate

Glad to see you putting the post up, and hopefully now those pearls will be dropping in very very soon.


My two penneth would be something like this,


The best Normally Aspirated 16v's i know are the BLS 33, the Chris Snowdon 33 race cars, and Anthony George's race 33.

All are getting close if not a full 2.0, steel cranks and good rods a must for those high power reaching revs, at their level anyway.

lightened flywheel, either a reqworked 16v one or if you end up going full ecu then swap it out for an older 8v without the trigger wheel and lighten that, its already a kilo lighter as stock, then add the small aftermarket trigger wheel to the front pulley instead.

Worked and Big Valve heads, very tricky to do, but key to big NA power from a 16v, and cams of course are just plain hard to get hold of and expensive.

Maybe a clean up, smoothing, of the angled inlet route, some matched porting and a cam reprofile is a good place to start with the heads when budget smacks a bit hard!

Junk the stock inlet manifold, go either conversion to carbs with electronic ignition controller such as Nodiz, Omex 100 and above, or if budget allows full throttle bodies and a full ecu a'la Omex 600 etc

If you're breathing in better you'd better get it out better, so performance manifold and system once you know roughly where your engine build is going to take you (and i'm not saying a word! )


theres some quick things to get the ball rolling off top of my head.


speaking of getting the ball rolling, i know someone who has a block, crank, and 89mm JE piston set for sale? which will give you an 1800 and a bit, might be useful to chat about?

Thanks Shrew - good points made - appreciated. I'll contact the guy with the block etc, but freight to Australia may be a severely limiting factor ! Thanks again though !

The BLS car I have raced with many times, but not for long on the same piece of track (!) Snowy built my old 16v, so I'd imagine he would have a great car - added to which, he is a really talented driver too. Anthony Georges car was always quick, so with years of development I'd imagine thats very rapid !

Johnboy wrote:Hi chap welcome to the mad house

It's my 1.8 that I'm selling. If your interested have a look in the parts section and pm me your number
Sounds like you know your way round a 33. They are great cars !

Hi mate - thanks for the reply - let me know roughly what kind of money you are looking for, and if its in budget I'll look at what the freight would cost....

Thanks again Johnboy

hi mate and welcome from me as well

In my opinion ?

Keep your engine stock, spend some money on suspension to eliminate bodyroll, and buy a Limited Slip Diff.

Thats all

Stop trying to hijack the thread so we tell you how to sort out your Jelly 33 Chris!

Supercharged16v wrote:hi mate and welcome from me as well

In my opinion ?

Keep your engine stock, spend some money on suspension to eliminate bodyroll, and buy a Limited Slip Diff.

Thats all

Thanks - appreciated, and for sure the "sensible" option, as after all what we are all seeking is lap time, not just power......

Correct, true, and another harsh reality to consider is that once beyond bhp figures notably more than stock, say 180 plus, the gearbox becomes questionably unreliable too.

So, as I've stated myself as a way of curbing my own procurement of bragging rights,

Its better to have horses you can spank than stallions you have to nurse!

If you get my meaning?


I'd half planned a thoroughly modern turbo 16v, but until there's a reasonable answer to the gearbox weaknesses, I'm going to settle for a lot less power but as Chris rightly suggests, make it go round the corners better.

Plus, thats always money well spent, because if done wisely, it can stay with you throughout further developments too, kinda futureproof,

Well, almost!


Are we opening the thread to include suspension, drivetrain and brakes too, or keep this engine mods and start another thread or two for chassis etc?

Correct, true, and another harsh reality to consider is that once beyond bhp figures notably more than stock, say 180 plus, the gearbox becomes questionably unreliable too.

So, as I've stated myself as a way of curbing my own procurement of bragging rights,

Its better to have horses you can spank than stallions you have to nurse!

If you get my meaning?


I'd half planned a thoroughly modern turbo 16v, but until there's a reasonable answer to the gearbox weaknesses, I'm going to settle for a lot less power but as Chris rightly suggests, make it go round the corners better.

Plus, thats always money well spent, because if done wisely, it can stay with you throughout further developments too, kinda futureproof,

Well, almost!


Are we opening the thread to include suspension, drivetrain and brakes too, or keep this engine mods and start another thread or two for chassis etc?

Listen to the short bloke ! I've got plenty of experience racing my 33 on track days :p

Yes weve seen the videos,

Where every bend and curve becomes a 360 island,

Must be a Cypriot thing?

Oh be quiet you :p

At least I race ... and that 360 thing only happened once...

... okay maybe 2 or 3 times...

But I have learned a lot since then !
Playing with your car, trying different things and approaches doesnt end with you pointing at the right direction every time ! hahahaha


Seriously mate, keep your engine stock for now, make it stick to the track and you will be amazed how much further you will go instead of trying to squeeze more power out of the engine

Yes indeed guys - a lot of wise words ! Thanks to everyone who has been contributing to this thread - I learnt a long time ago that getting reductions in lap time was a lot easier and cheaper by going the weight reduction route, at least to start with, and on one occasion when I'd gone as far with the car in that regard, I even went on a crash diet, losing 15/20 kilos !

I guess my phase 1 raft of mods is a pretty good place to start anyway, as the car only weighs 800kgs. I think that's pretty light for a 33 ?

Thanks again guys, very much appreciated. Shame I'm in Australia - otherwise I would get Chris Snowdon to build me a car again !

He has to rebuild his own first!

petrolhead wrote:He has to rebuild his own first!

Why, what happened ?

Sadly, very sadly, last race of the year at Silverstone he caught up in a crash, not his own doing at all, and got punted about like a pinball.

It damaged the car quite a bit, front and rear corners took a knock, and we suspected engine damage from knocking the belts off


that was the paddock conjecture anyhow, what they found once back at the workshop i don't know, but as you can imagine, everyone was feeling rather low, particularly as Chris sounded like he had been considering using the 33 less and less, and now that John Sismey (Lahoma Engineering, largely the cars builder iirc) was retired.

A very horrid end to the season, and no way to retire what is an awesome car.

petrolhead wrote:Sadly, very sadly, last race of the year at Silverstone he caught up in a crash, not his own doing at all, and got punted about like a pinball.

It damaged the car quite a bit, front and rear corners took a knock, and we suspected engine damage from knocking the belts off


that was the paddock conjecture anyhow, what they found once back at the workshop i don't know, but as you can imagine, everyone was feeling rather low, particularly as Chris sounded like he had been considering using the 33 less and less, and now that John Sismey (Lahoma Engineering, largely the cars builder iirc) was retired.

A very horrid end to the season, and no way to retire what is an awesome car.

Seems like he was not hurt from the above - shame the car got badly damaged though - Chris is a class act - and did loads of great work on my cars, including building the blue 33 16v - I'll email him.

Hi Marco

I pm'ed you a couple of days ago . You haven't opened it ?

Marco

if you're emailing Chris, just mention that i still have the 16v heads i offered him if he needs them for it please mate.

Ta very much

petrolhead wrote:Marco

if you're emailing Chris, just mention that i still have the 16v heads i offered him if he needs them for it please mate.

Ta very much

I emailed him already and got a reply - apparently they are rebuilding the car for next year. In the typical Chris Snowdon understated way, he described the accident as, and I quote - "Yes not a good accident it was very noisy"

Johnboy wrote:Hi Marco

I pm'ed you a couple of days ago . You haven't opened it ?

Apologies - been very busy with work and home - I have 10 kids.........and 10 grandkids lol - feel my pain why dontcha lol !

Ive now seem your pm (getting used to the site) If I was in the UK I would own all that by now, but I'll look into freight costs to Australia....probably too much I'm guessing.....We'll see. Wonder what it weighs approximately ? 200kgs ?

Morning or evening marco

No probs ten kids buy a bloody tv man
I could have a go at weighing it as its in bits . But it's at my old garage so will need to go get it.

Cheers johnboy

Johnboy wrote:Morning or evening marco

No probs ten kids buy a bloody tv man
I could have a go at weighing it as its in bits . But it's at my old garage so will need to go get it.

Cheers johnboy

Don't want you to go to the trouble for now as I haven't even taken delivery of the car yet ! Massive hailstorms here mean loads of damaged cars and therefore car transport difficult to organise ! Should be here Saturday and I'll know better what I am dealing with !

Sounds bad man . Good luck with the car and put all fresh pics of it . Then the modding can begin

It's here at last - and it's without doubt the best deal I've ever done on a racecar !

It's here.posting.php?mode=reply&f=2&t=671#

Morning marco

The car looks great.
Interesting bonnet venting. I think I would still put a shroud around the filter tho. You'd be amazed how much hot air the filter would still suck in!
I'm sure your going to have a lot of fun in it