Alfasud Trofeo Sump

[Spacenut]

Hi guys - a suitably racy question from an unusual angle today

I am about to embark on the final (maybe) big project on the Nova, replacing the standard 1.5 Ti engine with an Alfatune unit which I got from my good friend Graham some years ago. Graham is advising a full strip-down and rebuild before it goes back in the car, as it has been stored for some time.

Now, being an Alfatune 1600, the engine already has a number of trick modifications (this example is a 1500 block with a 1700 crank and special pistons, theoretically ideal for road use), including a large-capacity baffled sump. However, because my gearchange linkage runs forwards along the right hand side of the sump pan, I cannot use this special sump

As I will be mainly using the engine for road use, I probably don't need such an elaborate sump anyway, but I would still like to make sure that the engine gets as much protection as possible from oil surge. When I was talking to Ted Pearson at Auto Italia he suggested using a Trofeo sump, which was a standard sump pan internally modified by Autodelta for the racing series. This modification appeals to me as it would allow me to retain the existing gear linkage while providing some modicum of protection for the Alfatune engine.

Does anyone know what the Autodelta modification consisted of, or has dimensions I could use to modify a standard sump? I have an old 1500 engine block and oil pump that I can use to make sure everything fits properly and a standard sump pan that I can modify.

The standard sump comes with a single baffle plate...



But the only pictures that I could find of a modified standard sump date back more than a decade and come from the other side of the world...



The above may, or may not be similar/identical to the Autodelta design. I can't find anything else online.

Does anyone have access to homologation papers or factory modification manuals that might help? If not I will probably copy the Aussie design, as it seems suitable for the job (I know the one in the picture is a 16v), but I do like the idea of an Autodelta sump though!

Any help greatly appreciated!

Lauren

[Spacenut]

So I did a bit more searching, and actually found all the FIA homologation papers for the 1500 Group N and 1300 Group A Alfasuds, but sadly no sump pictures

Interestingly I did note that when the homologated vented front brakes with 4-pot calipers were used, the recommended rear calipers are the Alfetta GTV items, with the handbrake fitting. I wonder if the mounting PCD for the Alfetta rear brakes are the same as the Alfasud fronts??? That's a question for another time I think.

I can't believe there are only two pictures of the Autodelta Trofeo kit laid out in front of a complete car, but that is all I could find. The picture with the best lighting revealed this when magnified...



(edit - picture has come out very small, but if magnified x500 you can see some detail)

Very grainy but you can see that the baffle plate has been raised so that it is level compared with the mounting flange. There is also an indication that the baffle extends the length of the sump pan on both sides, not just on the RH side. I thought this latter cut-out was for oil pump clearance, so maybe this is just a trick of the light.

The picture still begs the question - what is fitted underneath the top baffle plate?

Thanks guys!

Lauren

[Veesix75]

I wouldn’t bother, unless you are going on a circuit or plan to take every road corner 100% on the limit the std sump is more than good enough.

It’s not the state of tune that the sump is baffled for, it’s the oil surge on on heavy circuit/race cornering. For example I still had a baffled sump on my std/prod spec engined racer for surge/starvation.

You won’t replicate race conditions surge on the roads.

[rsfruitbat]

A simple modification I have used for yrs is to well a horseshoe shaped piece of metal vertically from the existing battle plate to about 6mm above the sump base. This ensures any oil being fed back to the sump ends up around the pickup. It also reduces oil surge.

Rsfruitbat

[alfadave]

Have you considered a dry sump system?

I wondered if any boxer race cars have ever had one fitted?

[junior]

Have you considered a dry sump system?

I wondered if any boxer race cars have ever had one fitted?

Yes, mine was dry sump, I think partly for getting the car so low to the ground. Once the exhaust went through the car the next lowest thing was the sump from my viewing under the car.

[LooLooSud33Spider]

Boxer Dry sump pan

[Spacenut]

Have you considered a dry sump system?

I wondered if any boxer race cars have ever had one fitted?

I had - but I don't really need the extra clearance under the sump, as the driveshaft angle would be compromised if I dropped the engine and box down any further. Plus there is the expense of the dry sump pump, oil tank, modified sump etc., so I decided to stick with a wet sump for road use.

[Spacenut]

Boxer Dry sump pan
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Interesting. Any ideas what modifications Autodelta made to the Trofeo sump Lou? Did Westune ever use a modified standard sump or were they always "big wing" high capacity items?

I can't get the latter to fit unless I convert to a RH gearchange, which would be a big job

[LooLooSud33Spider]

Hi Lauren.
Dry sump would certainly add a fair bit of extra plumbing and for road use it’s just not really needed. I have one of the dealer team big wing baffled sump that I may use just because I can but for rod use it really is overkill
I would say if your not running a cooler that would be worthwhile upgrade given the mid engine layout of the Green meanie

[LooLooSud33Spider]

That dry sump pan is one I acquired on an engine my 33 racer runs a std 16v sump

[Spacenut]

Hi Lauren.
Dry sump would certainly add a fair bit of extra plumbing and for road use it’s just not really needed. I have one of the dealer team big wing baffled sump that I may use just because I can but for rod use it really is overkill
I would say if your not running a cooler that would be worthwhile upgrade given the mid engine layout of the Green meanie

Thanks Lou, that helps a lot. I do have an oil cooler to go with the Alfatune engine, which I will plumb in with the sandwich plate from my old remote oil filter setup. I will have to mount the cooler behind the LH sill intake as there is no room on the RH side. Not sure how I am going to route the hoses for that yet!

In the meantime I will probably modify my spare standard sump with Fruitbat's horseshoe.

Lauren