what to use to runaround ...
what to use to runaround ...
hello you lot.... wanted to pole opinion as to a new runabout ( til I get round to doing the sud.)
should I get
A: a 146 probably 1.6 (ive had 2 Ti`s previously and theyre a bit too thirsty)
or
B: a 156 jtd
please vote now
and does the 156 jtd have dual mass flywheel ? is that why I keep seeing them so cheap with "clutch problem" ? (sorry I know its a bit out of the remit here but I know quite a few of you have/ have had 156s...)
should I get
A: a 146 probably 1.6 (ive had 2 Ti`s previously and theyre a bit too thirsty)
or
B: a 156 jtd
please vote now
and does the 156 jtd have dual mass flywheel ? is that why I keep seeing them so cheap with "clutch problem" ? (sorry I know its a bit out of the remit here but I know quite a few of you have/ have had 156s...)
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- Location: Denmark
Re: what to use to runaround ...
Yes JTD has DMF. I have a 156 1,9 16v JTD and I recently had to change the clutch and the flywheel. It's pretty expensive The bright side of it is that the original lasted 260.000 km and i think most of km's with a tuningbox (still on the car) It drives really well now so I guess it was worth it
-
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:12 pm
- Location: Denmark
Re: what to use to runaround ...
Oh my vote is on B if it's a RST
Here are 2 pics of mine. The first is with 18" Ti wheels and the 2nd is with 16" winter wheels
Here are 2 pics of mine. The first is with 18" Ti wheels and the 2nd is with 16" winter wheels
-
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:12 pm
- Location: Denmark
- PETROLHEAD
- Posts: 3045
- Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:51 pm
- Location: Nottingham
Re: what to use to runaround ...
Before i vote and add my two penneth Mark
would the 146 1.6 be a twin spark or boxer engine?
would the 146 1.6 be a twin spark or boxer engine?
SHREW
I AM the Law!
Alfasud 1.7-16v, Charade Turbo SR, & The Dirty Diesels - GT Cloverleaf, 159 Ti Sportwagon, Saab 9-3 Sportwagon
I AM the Law!
Alfasud 1.7-16v, Charade Turbo SR, & The Dirty Diesels - GT Cloverleaf, 159 Ti Sportwagon, Saab 9-3 Sportwagon
Re: what to use to runaround ...
i have 2 runarounds at the moment, can't decide which one to keep!
a mk2 punto, 1.2 16V engine. fantastic on fuel, about 48mpg. enough room, cheap to tax & insure. and you don't mind if it gets a ding or a scratch.
just bought a 147 jtd 16V which is equally good on fuel, roomy etc etc. but a bit more special to drive and be in.
it's not tidy enough to become the weekend/family car as has a few dings already so it may take over from the punto and i will look for a GT JTD to keep shiny.
have you considered an early 156 2.4 10V jtd? especially in sportwagon guise they are an awesome car. the last of the 10V's were best on fuel, 45mpg+, and have a great exhaust note for a diesel.
pretty cheap too now.
most (all?) alfa jtd's have a dual mass flywheel now, most cars do actually, but as long as the clutch feels right and you get no juddering on clutch take up i'd not worry too much. at the price the cars can be had for now they are well worth the gamble
this little beaut owes me less than £1k. that's buying it, new discs & pads front and rear, hand-brake cables, years tax & mot etc.
a mk2 punto, 1.2 16V engine. fantastic on fuel, about 48mpg. enough room, cheap to tax & insure. and you don't mind if it gets a ding or a scratch.
just bought a 147 jtd 16V which is equally good on fuel, roomy etc etc. but a bit more special to drive and be in.
it's not tidy enough to become the weekend/family car as has a few dings already so it may take over from the punto and i will look for a GT JTD to keep shiny.
have you considered an early 156 2.4 10V jtd? especially in sportwagon guise they are an awesome car. the last of the 10V's were best on fuel, 45mpg+, and have a great exhaust note for a diesel.
pretty cheap too now.
most (all?) alfa jtd's have a dual mass flywheel now, most cars do actually, but as long as the clutch feels right and you get no juddering on clutch take up i'd not worry too much. at the price the cars can be had for now they are well worth the gamble
this little beaut owes me less than £1k. that's buying it, new discs & pads front and rear, hand-brake cables, years tax & mot etc.
Giulietta JTD 170
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Flavia coupe 1.8 1963
Lancia Dedra turbo
Renault Clio 197 RS
I'm bad with people things
But I should have tried more
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Flavia coupe 1.8 1963
Lancia Dedra turbo
Renault Clio 197 RS
I'm bad with people things
But I should have tried more
Re: what to use to runaround ...
Morning chaps
It's really down to what you need it for?
As Kev said the 2.4 jtd is a great engine but a little heavy .ive got a2001 sportwagon which I've had for nearly four year now . I'm getting about 46 mpg driving like miss Daisy that's with a decat it's not in the best condition tho but does around trip of 46 miles a day ! What I really want is gt jtd
It's really down to what you need it for?
As Kev said the 2.4 jtd is a great engine but a little heavy .ive got a2001 sportwagon which I've had for nearly four year now . I'm getting about 46 mpg driving like miss Daisy that's with a decat it's not in the best condition tho but does around trip of 46 miles a day ! What I really want is gt jtd
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Gt jtdm blackline
S2 33 cl veloce 16v sleeping
Freestyle superjet jetski
Gt jtdm blackline
S2 33 cl veloce 16v sleeping
Freestyle superjet jetski
- PETROLHEAD
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- Location: Nottingham
Re: what to use to runaround ...
Johnboy wrote:What I really want is gt jtd
That'd look pretty cool with your jetski behind it eh JB?
I'd have another 2.4 10v, in a heartbeat, cracking stomper of a thing, and so i assume i'd say the same of a 20v, but haven't owned one so cant commit to the same fondness.
I have had 1.9 16v SW 156, and if i'm honest, i didn't think it was a patch on my older 10v.
it should tick the boxes, Lighter, Much Revvier, etc etc, but in reality i found it barely, if anymore economical than the 10v, i never had any handling problems with the 10v anyway, and both myself and the missus started to feel the absence of the huge torque of the 10v, and even the exhaust note.
the 10v was however a little modified
The real pain in the arse with ALL 156's, and is made worse with the weight and torque of ALL the jtd engines i believe, is the chocolate wishbones and bushes up front, engine mounts suffer too, and once "perked!" up a bit, they can eat a good clutch in a single sitting!
For me, from experience of most of them, a 156 again could only ever be another 10v/20v jtd, or a V6.
There simply has to be some "extra" driving pleasure to be had from them, to make the maintenance worth living with in my opinion.
And that brings me onto the V6, which in 2.5 V6 is a real performer and mightily cheap too. Goes like stink, sound gorgeous, and you can achieve around 30mpg driving quite normally, which with petrol being cheaper than derv anyway, starts to make sense again.
Even the GTA 3.2 SW is a great buy these days, and cheaper to fuel than a 1.8/2.0 twin spark!
BUT
you did mention a 146 too, which i do have a great fondness of, and if it was a boxer engined version, in particular a 1712cc 16v, I'd love it!
Throw away the Cat, junk the drivers seat height adjuster, set of sport springs and decent wheels, and you have a really practical Class E race car for pence! ha ha!
Tough choices, i probably only made matters worse!
whats your current thinking?
SHREW
I AM the Law!
Alfasud 1.7-16v, Charade Turbo SR, & The Dirty Diesels - GT Cloverleaf, 159 Ti Sportwagon, Saab 9-3 Sportwagon
I AM the Law!
Alfasud 1.7-16v, Charade Turbo SR, & The Dirty Diesels - GT Cloverleaf, 159 Ti Sportwagon, Saab 9-3 Sportwagon
Re: what to use to runaround ...
Yes it would
The only thing that puts me off the gt is , it's got the same suspension as the 156
The only thing that puts me off the gt is , it's got the same suspension as the 156
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Gt jtdm blackline
S2 33 cl veloce 16v sleeping
Freestyle superjet jetski
Gt jtdm blackline
S2 33 cl veloce 16v sleeping
Freestyle superjet jetski
Re: what to use to runaround ...
well thanks for all the responses chaps that's made it much easier to choose.
... didn't know about the 156`s weaknesses, know almost nothing of them tbh have never really got past the previous generation (155/145/6) in terms of ownership
and yes shrew, I agree about the early boxer engine 146 but theyre getting on a bit that's my only issue with them and not so easy to find as the t-spark ...
and kev yes those 1.2 16v puntos are great fun (have had a couple of sportings before) proper go-karts and hadn't considered the 147 thought they were still bit expensive (compared to 156 anyway)
....... oh I don't know.......
... didn't know about the 156`s weaknesses, know almost nothing of them tbh have never really got past the previous generation (155/145/6) in terms of ownership
and yes shrew, I agree about the early boxer engine 146 but theyre getting on a bit that's my only issue with them and not so easy to find as the t-spark ...
and kev yes those 1.2 16v puntos are great fun (have had a couple of sportings before) proper go-karts and hadn't considered the 147 thought they were still bit expensive (compared to 156 anyway)
....... oh I don't know.......
Re: what to use to runaround ...
that's the joy of Alfas buy with the heart not the head I need smaller car too and can't make my mind up ?
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Gt jtdm blackline
S2 33 cl veloce 16v sleeping
Freestyle superjet jetski
Gt jtdm blackline
S2 33 cl veloce 16v sleeping
Freestyle superjet jetski
Re: what to use to runaround ...
good point john,
there is a boxer 146 on that ebay just now buts its a too far away....
there is a boxer 146 on that ebay just now buts its a too far away....
Re: what to use to runaround ...
Markgq4 wrote: good point john,
there is a boxer 146 on that ebay just now buts its a too far away....
this isn't too far for you though mark
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ALFA-ROMEO-33 ... 3a8d26e647
Giulietta JTD 170
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Flavia coupe 1.8 1963
Lancia Dedra turbo
Renault Clio 197 RS
I'm bad with people things
But I should have tried more
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Flavia coupe 1.8 1963
Lancia Dedra turbo
Renault Clio 197 RS
I'm bad with people things
But I should have tried more
Re: what to use to runaround ...
So it's follow all the choices on ebay and then say b****r should have bid on that.
Re: what to use to runaround ...
Looks good apart from some Muppet has cut the lip off the veloce bumper
Mark you know you want it
Mark you know you want it
Powered by the dark side
Gt jtdm blackline
S2 33 cl veloce 16v sleeping
Freestyle superjet jetski
Gt jtdm blackline
S2 33 cl veloce 16v sleeping
Freestyle superjet jetski
Re: what to use to runaround ...
fancy that, someone butchering a veloce bumperJohnboy wrote:Looks good apart from some Muppet has cut the lip off the veloce bumper
Mark you know you want it
Giulietta JTD 170
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Flavia coupe 1.8 1963
Lancia Dedra turbo
Renault Clio 197 RS
I'm bad with people things
But I should have tried more
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Flavia coupe 1.8 1963
Lancia Dedra turbo
Renault Clio 197 RS
I'm bad with people things
But I should have tried more
Re: what to use to runaround ...
i forgot about you two
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Gt jtdm blackline
S2 33 cl veloce 16v sleeping
Freestyle superjet jetski
Gt jtdm blackline
S2 33 cl veloce 16v sleeping
Freestyle superjet jetski
- PETROLHEAD
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- Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:51 pm
- Location: Nottingham
Re: what to use to runaround ...
are my ears burning?
nothing is tooooo far mark, and heres what you should do, FACT! and no-one will argue!
add everything you fancy to your watch list, preferably all finishing on the same evening, this is important, it HAS to be an evening, later the better.
you set this up in advance, even book the following day off work, because you know you're going to be buying a new alfa the next day, so start wheezing, coughing and snotting early on, much more convincing.
you tell the missus you really fancy a cute n cuddly night in, curled up on the settee, even touching knees occasionaly, and she doesn't have to cook tea either, you love and appreciate her more than life itself, and tonight, you'll prove it just like old times!
you finish work, and rush to the off licence on the way back. Take notes, this is an important list. 3 assorted pot noodles, a pack of ginger nuts, 4 litres of mixed Lambrini, and a box of Desperado Tequila Lager (24 bottles)
you cook tea, 2 pot noodles, 1 for you, 1 for the love of your life, so of course you bought her bestest flavour cos she's special to yer.
Emmerdale, Corrie, Eastenders, to the swan song of promised love and the clinking and burping of 4 litres of Lambrini,
she's pissed! flat out on the settee is no good though, you need to get her to bed, just moments before the room spin and pending coma sets in, otherwise you'll be too busy with the mop n bucket and mess up the final phase.
now its your turn, get hammered! throw Desperado down your neck like there's no tomorrow, till about the 10'oclock news chimes up.
break from the drinking for a mo, put the kettle on, you'll need that 3rd pot noodle for sustenance now, time is ticking!
weather forecast on, heres your next que for action. return to the drinking, and using the whole pack of ginger nuts as sugar hit, you should be equally drunk and wired at the same time for the last stage.
turn on the laptop, fire up ebay, and look at your watch list. somewhere in there, is a late finishing bargain that surely no-one else will still be up or around for on a thursday night, afterall, THEYVE all got work the next day,
you fire bids off like you're duelling Lee Van Cleef at dawn, sniping like an Oswald, but you're blind drunk, and actually blind, you almost bid on a Ford but it was more a drunken sausage finger ebay incident than a serious effort to own it, never mind, move on, keep going, bid! bid! more!! higher!!! lost,
who the frik is outbidding me, its got to be his mate, git! i'll show him,
SH1T!!!!!!
what have i just won?
i can barely see it, and sleeeeeeeeep
i guarantee that using this tried and tested method, YOU WILL have bought your next car by the following morning.
you won't remember what it was, where it was, or how it could possibly be worth £8567.83 exactly, but what you do know is that you have the day off work, result!, and you hope that its an estate, because here comes the missus with some suitcases for you!
you know it makes sense,
let us know friday morning what you got Mark?
nothing is tooooo far mark, and heres what you should do, FACT! and no-one will argue!
add everything you fancy to your watch list, preferably all finishing on the same evening, this is important, it HAS to be an evening, later the better.
you set this up in advance, even book the following day off work, because you know you're going to be buying a new alfa the next day, so start wheezing, coughing and snotting early on, much more convincing.
you tell the missus you really fancy a cute n cuddly night in, curled up on the settee, even touching knees occasionaly, and she doesn't have to cook tea either, you love and appreciate her more than life itself, and tonight, you'll prove it just like old times!
you finish work, and rush to the off licence on the way back. Take notes, this is an important list. 3 assorted pot noodles, a pack of ginger nuts, 4 litres of mixed Lambrini, and a box of Desperado Tequila Lager (24 bottles)
you cook tea, 2 pot noodles, 1 for you, 1 for the love of your life, so of course you bought her bestest flavour cos she's special to yer.
Emmerdale, Corrie, Eastenders, to the swan song of promised love and the clinking and burping of 4 litres of Lambrini,
she's pissed! flat out on the settee is no good though, you need to get her to bed, just moments before the room spin and pending coma sets in, otherwise you'll be too busy with the mop n bucket and mess up the final phase.
now its your turn, get hammered! throw Desperado down your neck like there's no tomorrow, till about the 10'oclock news chimes up.
break from the drinking for a mo, put the kettle on, you'll need that 3rd pot noodle for sustenance now, time is ticking!
weather forecast on, heres your next que for action. return to the drinking, and using the whole pack of ginger nuts as sugar hit, you should be equally drunk and wired at the same time for the last stage.
turn on the laptop, fire up ebay, and look at your watch list. somewhere in there, is a late finishing bargain that surely no-one else will still be up or around for on a thursday night, afterall, THEYVE all got work the next day,
you fire bids off like you're duelling Lee Van Cleef at dawn, sniping like an Oswald, but you're blind drunk, and actually blind, you almost bid on a Ford but it was more a drunken sausage finger ebay incident than a serious effort to own it, never mind, move on, keep going, bid! bid! more!! higher!!! lost,
who the frik is outbidding me, its got to be his mate, git! i'll show him,
SH1T!!!!!!
what have i just won?
i can barely see it, and sleeeeeeeeep
i guarantee that using this tried and tested method, YOU WILL have bought your next car by the following morning.
you won't remember what it was, where it was, or how it could possibly be worth £8567.83 exactly, but what you do know is that you have the day off work, result!, and you hope that its an estate, because here comes the missus with some suitcases for you!
you know it makes sense,
let us know friday morning what you got Mark?
SHREW
I AM the Law!
Alfasud 1.7-16v, Charade Turbo SR, & The Dirty Diesels - GT Cloverleaf, 159 Ti Sportwagon, Saab 9-3 Sportwagon
I AM the Law!
Alfasud 1.7-16v, Charade Turbo SR, & The Dirty Diesels - GT Cloverleaf, 159 Ti Sportwagon, Saab 9-3 Sportwagon
Re: what to use to runaround ...
i like ginger nuts
bought VJM in just about the exact same circumstances, apart from the pot noodles
bought VJM in just about the exact same circumstances, apart from the pot noodles
Giulietta JTD 170
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Flavia coupe 1.8 1963
Lancia Dedra turbo
Renault Clio 197 RS
I'm bad with people things
But I should have tried more
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Flavia coupe 1.8 1963
Lancia Dedra turbo
Renault Clio 197 RS
I'm bad with people things
But I should have tried more
- PETROLHEAD
- Posts: 3045
- Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:51 pm
- Location: Nottingham
Re: what to use to runaround ...
No pot noodles?
How on earth did you get away with not cooking for her?
Youve taken it to another level mate, well done! Lol!
How on earth did you get away with not cooking for her?
Youve taken it to another level mate, well done! Lol!
SHREW
I AM the Law!
Alfasud 1.7-16v, Charade Turbo SR, & The Dirty Diesels - GT Cloverleaf, 159 Ti Sportwagon, Saab 9-3 Sportwagon
I AM the Law!
Alfasud 1.7-16v, Charade Turbo SR, & The Dirty Diesels - GT Cloverleaf, 159 Ti Sportwagon, Saab 9-3 Sportwagon
Re: what to use to runaround ...
Yes it really is a tried and tested way! It's even filtered down south
Powered by the dark side
Gt jtdm blackline
S2 33 cl veloce 16v sleeping
Freestyle superjet jetski
Gt jtdm blackline
S2 33 cl veloce 16v sleeping
Freestyle superjet jetski
Re: what to use to runaround ...
lmfao brilliant !petrolhead wrote:are my ears burning?
nothing is tooooo far mark, and heres what you should do, FACT! and no-one will argue!
add everything you fancy to your watch list, preferably all finishing on the same evening, this is important, it HAS to be an evening, later the better.
you set this up in advance, even book the following day off work, because you know you're going to be buying a new alfa the next day, so start wheezing, coughing and snotting early on, much more convincing.
you tell the missus you really fancy a cute n cuddly night in, curled up on the settee, even touching knees occasionaly, and she doesn't have to cook tea either, you love and appreciate her more than life itself, and tonight, you'll prove it just like old times!
you finish work, and rush to the off licence on the way back. Take notes, this is an important list. 3 assorted pot noodles, a pack of ginger nuts, 4 litres of mixed Lambrini, and a box of Desperado Tequila Lager (24 bottles)
you cook tea, 2 pot noodles, 1 for you, 1 for the love of your life, so of course you bought her bestest flavour cos she's special to yer.
Emmerdale, Corrie, Eastenders, to the swan song of promised love and the clinking and burping of 4 litres of Lambrini,
she's pissed! flat out on the settee is no good though, you need to get her to bed, just moments before the room spin and pending coma sets in, otherwise you'll be too busy with the mop n bucket and mess up the final phase.
now its your turn, get hammered! throw Desperado down your neck like there's no tomorrow, till about the 10'oclock news chimes up.
break from the drinking for a mo, put the kettle on, you'll need that 3rd pot noodle for sustenance now, time is ticking!
weather forecast on, heres your next que for action. return to the drinking, and using the whole pack of ginger nuts as sugar hit, you should be equally drunk and wired at the same time for the last stage.
turn on the laptop, fire up ebay, and look at your watch list. somewhere in there, is a late finishing bargain that surely no-one else will still be up or around for on a thursday night, afterall, THEYVE all got work the next day,
you fire bids off like you're duelling Lee Van Cleef at dawn, sniping like an Oswald, but you're blind drunk, and actually blind, you almost bid on a Ford but it was more a drunken sausage finger ebay incident than a serious effort to own it, never mind, move on, keep going, bid! bid! more!! higher!!! lost,
who the frik is outbidding me, its got to be his mate, git! i'll show him,
SH1T!!!!!!
what have i just won?
i can barely see it, and sleeeeeeeeep
i guarantee that using this tried and tested method, YOU WILL have bought your next car by the following morning.
you won't remember what it was, where it was, or how it could possibly be worth £8567.83 exactly, but what you do know is that you have the day off work, result!, and you hope that its an estate, because here comes the missus with some suitcases for you!
you know it makes sense,
let us know friday morning what you got Mark?
that's what I will do then thanks for your help...
- PETROLHEAD
- Posts: 3045
- Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:51 pm
- Location: Nottingham
Re: what to use to runaround ...
ha ha!
i dare you to video log it! that would be hilarious!!!!!!
i dare you to video log it! that would be hilarious!!!!!!
SHREW
I AM the Law!
Alfasud 1.7-16v, Charade Turbo SR, & The Dirty Diesels - GT Cloverleaf, 159 Ti Sportwagon, Saab 9-3 Sportwagon
I AM the Law!
Alfasud 1.7-16v, Charade Turbo SR, & The Dirty Diesels - GT Cloverleaf, 159 Ti Sportwagon, Saab 9-3 Sportwagon
Re: what to use to runaround ...
is a 146ti in our very own classified ads that may suit you down to the ground
Giulietta JTD 170
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Flavia coupe 1.8 1963
Lancia Dedra turbo
Renault Clio 197 RS
I'm bad with people things
But I should have tried more
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Flavia coupe 1.8 1963
Lancia Dedra turbo
Renault Clio 197 RS
I'm bad with people things
But I should have tried more
- PETROLHEAD
- Posts: 3045
- Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:51 pm
- Location: Nottingham
Re: what to use to runaround ...
Ooh you read my mind! Ha ha!
SHREW
I AM the Law!
Alfasud 1.7-16v, Charade Turbo SR, & The Dirty Diesels - GT Cloverleaf, 159 Ti Sportwagon, Saab 9-3 Sportwagon
I AM the Law!
Alfasud 1.7-16v, Charade Turbo SR, & The Dirty Diesels - GT Cloverleaf, 159 Ti Sportwagon, Saab 9-3 Sportwagon
Re: what to use to runaround ...
ok i will take the bait ...
Re: what to use to runaround ...
Absolutely hilarious - I can see how Shrew ended up with a white van now
But seriously, why not try this...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1982-MINARI-S ... 27e0b0aa24
Everyone on the 'bay seems to be fighting over an engine-less Rotrax at the moment, although I can't imagine the current price will stay this low for long.
Once you've got it you can post in the Alfa kit lounge, it's a bit lonely in there at the moment
Lauren
But seriously, why not try this...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1982-MINARI-S ... 27e0b0aa24
Everyone on the 'bay seems to be fighting over an engine-less Rotrax at the moment, although I can't imagine the current price will stay this low for long.
Once you've got it you can post in the Alfa kit lounge, it's a bit lonely in there at the moment
Lauren
Re: what to use to runaround ...
Someone has to buy this
Powered by the dark side
Gt jtdm blackline
S2 33 cl veloce 16v sleeping
Freestyle superjet jetski
Gt jtdm blackline
S2 33 cl veloce 16v sleeping
Freestyle superjet jetski
Re: what to use to runaround ...
now, seeing as my punto will probably be sold tomorrow so i'll be down to just the 147 & sud..........why has this cropped up
always fancied one, time may be right.......next track day car?
always fancied one, time may be right.......next track day car?
Giulietta JTD 170
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Flavia coupe 1.8 1963
Lancia Dedra turbo
Renault Clio 197 RS
I'm bad with people things
But I should have tried more
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Flavia coupe 1.8 1963
Lancia Dedra turbo
Renault Clio 197 RS
I'm bad with people things
But I should have tried more
Re: what to use to runaround ...
Comes with a free hard-top... gowoooon, you know you want toKevJTD wrote:now, seeing as my punto will probably be sold tomorrow so i'll be down to just the 147 & sud..........why has this cropped up
always fancied one, time may be right.......next track day car?