The importance or not of fuelling.

Post Reply
User avatar
STEVE5M
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:43 pm
Location: Hailsham

The importance or not of fuelling.

Post by STEVE5M »

I'm probably committing a howler with this posting but what the heck! It's better to ask questions than sit dumbly.

Also, this could probably go in General but as it relates to the Alfetta I'll stick it here.

I have just completed 2,500 miles through Belgium, France and Italy. I'm pretty pleased that the car gave me no problems other than a bad connection on an indicator bulb. That got sorted using my wife's emery board!

Now, to the point. As soon as the car arrived in France it seemed better, louder, smoother. It took me a couple of days to work out why. I had avoided using SP95 E10 as advised by the internet (10% added biofuel) and used SP98 instead. The car really responded well to the higher octane. So my idiot question is....does it make that sort of difference with every car? Also, will the diesel super grades work as well on our oil burners?

Over to the panel.
Attachments
DSC06714.JPG
Had: 1974 Alfasud 5M, 1989 Alfasud Sprint 1.5QV,
Got: 1986 Alfetta GTV6
Want: Alfasud 5M, S1 Alfasud1.2 or 1.3Ti

User avatar
KevJTD
Posts: 5107
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:48 pm
Location: Lincs

Re: The importance or not of fuelling.

Post by KevJTD »

The biofuels that we have at the moment are really not good news to carburettor engines at all, the 10% should be avoided at all costs.
The Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs (which do actually have some teeth it seems as far as influencing Government, far worse conditions would be in place without their inetrventions) have done a great deal of research into the use of Biofuels in historic vehicles with fuel systems designed around the old petrols. Not only is there a danger from corrosion to fuel tanks due to the moisture content of the 10% in our cars with metal tanks (nearly all modern cars have plastic tanks) when fuel is stored over the Winter in the cars fuel tank but it has actually been proved to be a corrosive agent for the carburettor itself, besides the well known issues with turning to mush after a few months of idle storage, like when a car is laid up for the Winter.
I've read many an article from the FBHVC in many different car club magazines and it's all relevant and not a little worrying on what will happen if the powers that be get a higher than 10% Ethanol content into the fuels like they are aiming to....

http://www.fbhvc.co.uk/legislation-and- ... formation/
Giulietta JTD 170
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Flavia coupe 1.8 1963
Lancia Dedra turbo
Renault Clio 197 RS

I'm bad with people things
But I should have tried more

Veesix75
Posts: 1698
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:37 pm

Re: The importance or not of fuelling.

Post by Veesix75 »

I always use super unleaded in my race car, havnt tried it with normal 95 Ron

I suspect modern cars can adapt to the fuel via the all additional gadgets and sensors, whereas a good old carb and spark needs clean air and good fuel in simplicity.

User avatar
STEVE5M
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:43 pm
Location: Hailsham

Re: The importance or not of fuelling.

Post by STEVE5M »

Thanks for the comments.

Kev, I had no idea that debate was going on in the UK. I did not have to use E10 at all and now I'm very glad I didn't!

All I can add is that I normally use SP95 and regular diesel but having seen the difference SP98 makes to the GTV6 I may have a go at diesel 'super' grades in the family cars.

Ciao!
Had: 1974 Alfasud 5M, 1989 Alfasud Sprint 1.5QV,
Got: 1986 Alfetta GTV6
Want: Alfasud 5M, S1 Alfasud1.2 or 1.3Ti

User avatar
Spacenut
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:43 pm
Location: Hampshire

Re: The importance or not of fuelling.

Post by Spacenut »

KevJTD wrote:Not only is there a danger from corrosion to fuel tanks due to the moisture content of the 10% in our cars with metal tanks (nearly all modern cars have plastic tanks) when fuel is stored over the Winter in the cars fuel tank but it has actually been proved to be a corrosive agent for the carburettor itself
Not to mention that ethanol dissolves fibreglass (my fuel filler swirl pot) and clogs carburettor jets (big problem with powerboats in the US, which have all had to have their integrated FG fuel tanks remade in aluminium), as well as attacking nitrile rubber hoses...

Aromide fuels are generally bad news. That is why 110 octane unleaded is still available for general aviation use - the government is quite happy for you to roll to a standstill with a grenaded engine (it's your fault, you should have bought a nice NEW car), but quite another to see aircraft falling out of the sky...

I've never used anything other than 98 super unleaded in the Nova, and since the engine was a service replacement with zero miles when I got it, that means it has dined exclusively on unleaded fuel since it was built. However, I did have to fill up the Baccaruda with 95 unleaded once, and the car performed rather poorly, including guzzling fuel so quickly that I ran out over a mile away from the calculated next fuel stop (its a long story).

Like the boxer, the Alfa V6 was never designed to run on low octane fuel, so tuning it to run on 95 octane fuel is a false economy in the long run - the engine runs less efficiently, and produces less power, a very undesirable combination!

Lauren

User avatar
STEVE5M
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:43 pm
Location: Hailsham

Re: The importance or not of fuelling.

Post by STEVE5M »

Thanks, Lauren.

It's SP98 for the Alfa then. I have suggested to my son that he uses the same in his sud sprint.

Do you think the super diesel grades are worth buying?

Steve.
Had: 1974 Alfasud 5M, 1989 Alfasud Sprint 1.5QV,
Got: 1986 Alfetta GTV6
Want: Alfasud 5M, S1 Alfasud1.2 or 1.3Ti

User avatar
KevJTD
Posts: 5107
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:48 pm
Location: Lincs

Re: The importance or not of fuelling.

Post by KevJTD »

i have tried both grades of diesel in my jtd's and to be honest i've not noticed any difference, not in performace/mpg/smoke out the tailpipe etc.
my guess is, as has been mentioned earlier, that the modern cars with all the electronics are so good at optimising performance with what they are given. like the knock sensors of old that allow the engine to perfrom on just the right side of pinking.
i know poeple will claim that they get an extra 3mpg or whatever but it hasn't been the caes with me. same route, same times etc, near enough the exact same miles and mpg per tankful.
Giulietta JTD 170
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Flavia coupe 1.8 1963
Lancia Dedra turbo
Renault Clio 197 RS

I'm bad with people things
But I should have tried more

Sud 145
Posts: 1510
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:08 pm
Location: West Sussex.

Re: The importance or not of fuelling.

Post by Sud 145 »

My Sud has never had anything other than V Power so cannot compare but am well happy with the way she goes. However did have to replace two rubber fuel pipes on Saturday - lucky I checked the ends were cracking up,god knows how old they were.

User avatar
PETROLHEAD
Posts: 3045
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:51 pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: The importance or not of fuelling.

Post by PETROLHEAD »

I agree with all of the above 100%, 98ron everytime, and definitely none of these terrible bio fuels they keep pedalling us.

Incidentally i used some a couple of times in my 164 without realising thats what the village pumps were delivering at that time, and the mpg was so atrociously affected, I'm staggered it can be called a fuel at all!

The station owner had a number of complaints in the same manner, and wont order it again, he promised!

But, one thing maybe worth mentioning, is that if the effect of the better fuel abroad was so instantly felt, i wonder if your timing set up was leaning towards that way in the first place and only now is getting the fuel it always wanted?


Just stick with it and enjoy though eh! :P
SHREW

I AM the Law!


Alfasud 1.7-16v, Charade Turbo SR, & The Dirty Diesels - GT Cloverleaf, 159 Ti Sportwagon, Saab 9-3 Sportwagon

User avatar
STEVE5M
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:43 pm
Location: Hailsham

Re: The importance or not of fuelling.

Post by STEVE5M »

Shrew,

The car felt it, I felt it, even the wife felt it!

SP97 or 98 from now on.

:D :D :D
Had: 1974 Alfasud 5M, 1989 Alfasud Sprint 1.5QV,
Got: 1986 Alfetta GTV6
Want: Alfasud 5M, S1 Alfasud1.2 or 1.3Ti

User avatar
Spacenut
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:43 pm
Location: Hampshire

Re: The importance or not of fuelling.

Post by Spacenut »

petrolhead wrote:if the effect of the better fuel abroad was so instantly felt, i wonder if your timing set up was leaning towards that way in the first place and only now is getting the fuel it always wanted?
I wondered about that too, the recommendation at the time unleaded was introduced was that you had to retard the static timing by 3 degrees in order to run on 95 Octane unleaded. Unless Steve's Alfetta has EFI and a knock sensor of course...

Lauren

GTV
Posts: 36
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:18 pm
Location: Southerner

Re: The importance or not of fuelling.

Post by GTV »

I read Eddie Irvines autobiography once when he talked about racing a single seater Alfa engined car, and when they went to japan the fuel was 100 ron, and he led all weekend and the race, since then I always try and get the 98. A few years back a local garage still sold leaded petrol but it was bloody expensive,

User avatar
PETROLHEAD
Posts: 3045
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:51 pm
Location: Nottingham

Re: The importance or not of fuelling.

Post by PETROLHEAD »

GTV wrote: A few years back a local garage still sold leaded petrol but it was bloody expensive,

Aah,

the joys of 5 star!!!! :D
SHREW

I AM the Law!


Alfasud 1.7-16v, Charade Turbo SR, & The Dirty Diesels - GT Cloverleaf, 159 Ti Sportwagon, Saab 9-3 Sportwagon

Sud 145
Posts: 1510
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:08 pm
Location: West Sussex.

Re: The importance or not of fuelling.

Post by Sud 145 »

In the good old days we used to sell out of Esso Extra on a Friday evening because all the racers knew we stocked it.

Post Reply