Classic Alfa Forums

Hi everyone - I thought it was just a local issue last week when I tried to find a petrol station that wasn't trying to push E10 unleaded on an unsuspecting public, but today I had exactly the same problem - no super unleaded, anywhere!

My fuel gauge is on zero, which means I have a little bit in reserve, but I am a bit concerned that this is the start of a slippery slope. I guess the priority is the supply of wonderful new E10 fuel to the majority, and driver shortage is more likely to be the problem, but queuing pointlessly for 10 minutes at BP services on the A3 was like something out of the 1973 oil crisis

There seems to be no news about this shortage - are super unleaded users really that thin on the ground???

is anyone else having this problem?

Lauren

Hi Lauren
It seem the push to E10 is indeed well underway . Weirdly though last week I filled up the Daily and It was E10 that was unavailable so I had to use that devilish E5 (imagine my dissapointment). According to various sources it seems the jury’s still out on the effect of E10 on older engines and especially fuel systems. No doubt These are uncertain times for classic car owners.

Lauren try an Esso station if you have one near or Tesco Momentum.

Shell V Power 99 octane. Bit pricey though!

I suspect it’s more of an unexpected demand for super from people unsure about or unable to use e10 rather than any particular rationing or shortage of supply.

No issues filling up over the past couple of weeks at the local Tesco’s for their momentum99 which I’ve been using in all our cars except the merc for years.

There is a lot of scaremongering going on and panic buying it seems, like when the supermarkets got emptied on Loo rolls when the virus started....it wasn't that kind of virus!
Not that I'm saying the E10, or indeed the E5 situation isn't a disaster for our older classics.
Now, not all superunleaded fuels are ethanol free....I did some digging on it a hwile back, think it's just Esso that are E free... just that the superunleaded fuels still have an E5 limit.
This I would suggest to all our guys and galls on here is still very much to be avoided without making extra precautions.

A little precautionary tale.

A couple of weeks ago, the Bank holiday weekend, I woke up theintegrale from the unit planning on going to cadwell for the afternoon. On moving the car out then turning around to close the workshop doors I saw a trail of fluid, directly in line from where the car was and the route I'd taken. The fact it was fuel and leaking in the engine bay soon had me abandon any thoughts of a nice ride out!
The new rubber fuel lines I'd fitted 2 or so years ago were badly cracked under the coolant reservoir out of sight. I have always used superunleaded in the car but that still hasn't prevented this issue. Obviously fuel leaking onto the exhaust front pipe isn't ideal, so it has sat motionless until I find a better solution.

Tonight I have ordered enough new pipe (4M) to do the integrale and the Dedra as it too has an engine bay fuel leak, not cheap at around £85 inc some new stainless clips but way cheaper than a fireball. This stuff is said to be E15 resistant and the best spec currently available, I would suggest to anyone else to change before the splits become serious!

https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/hi ... -2240-0600

An alternative is an Ethanol stabilisor, which also has the added benefit of lead additive to combat valve seat errosion. A faff maybe and an extra cost, but £12 for enough to treat 250L is about the same as using superunleaded assuming a 5p p/l difference, which it is probably way more than that anyway!

https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/castrol ... e-cas1768/

I wondered what people think about 8mm copper fuel pipe?

With Ethanol resistant flexis where necessary.

........were the original fuel lines steel pipe on Suds?

I seem to remember ripping out some years ago.

Someone told me that Lotus used plastic fuel pipe on Elans etc. Not much use in a fire.

My integrale cracked one of the hard plastic lines near where it met the rubber section down under the unlit manifold, was a little bit smelly! That was about 12 years ago. I replaced the whole thing with some copper pipe I had laying around and had no issues, it did run inside the car though. I’d have thought cupronickel would be better suited for pipes routed externally.

It’s a job I’ll need to do on my e30 before it goes back on the road.

Other than the fuel hoses themselves, what other components could be affected by e10? Fuel pump? Seals / gaskets in the carb?

On the government checker is says all merc clks are compatible except one specific direct injection variant, I’d assume the tank, pump and main pipes were the same on all, maybe it’s a specific seal in the injectors they can’t guarantee is compatible?

I used copper pipe on my car when I got it back on the road in 2013.
I now need to get some of Kev's new E15 rated pipe to replace all the rubber stuff.
In fact, recently I had to remove the radiator and air box for some repairs, and it was a bit of a blessing as it exposed that the fuel line was all cracked. It wasn't leaking but very cracked. It had only been on the car three years.
Looks like it is something that may be worth checking guys.

I’ve had the same problem of cracked rubber fuel hose on both the Austin and the 33 racer. All of which were no more than a 2-3 yrs old

Ditto with my fuel hose, replaced about 3 years ago when I upgraded the fuel pipe from 6mm to 8mm throughout. It is only a short run from the main copper pipe to the fuel pressure regulator, but it split at the regulator union and the first I knew about it was a whiff of fresh petrol when I closed the garage door

I agree with Kev there is a lot of scaremongering about regarding this new fuel grade, but that doesn't mean we should be complacent. Ethanol eats through rubber parts so carburettor O-ring seals and accelerator pump diaphragms are obvious targets.

I almost always get my fuel from the Esso station in Petersfield, which as Kev says is Ethanol-free, but has to be labelled E5 because there is no Government standard for Ethanol-free petrol. This at least partly explains the rush to buy super unleaded by drivers who until recently were happy to use 95 RON unleaded.

The reason I use super unleaded is because it most closely corresponds to the octane rating that the Alfa boxer engine was designed to run on, leaded 4-star (98 RON). This allows me to use factory ignition timing and benefit from as many of the 95 horses that still remain in my engine!

Lauren

Having read these posts and going on Kev's recommendation my new fuel hose is coming from Merlin on Saturday.

Well, I see the national news has just acknowledged that there is a problem, although it has taken a shortage of E10 at the pumps to make the headlines.

Lack of delivery drivers

Apparently BP and Esso have been hardest hit, which just happen to be the two suppliers local to me. And what does the Government have to say? There is no shortage, and customers should continue to buy fuel as normal

I CAN'T FIND ANY FUEL TO BUY!!!! Honestly

Oh well, just another little reminder that everything is back to not normal

Lauren

8mm Cupro nickel for me.
7.6m for £12

Re Esso, it depends on what part of the country you are in wether it has ethanol or not. So check, it may contain it depending where you are, see: https://www.esso.co.uk/en-gb/fuels/petrol

The main issue with E10 is storage, leaving it in the tank, lines and carb overwinter is not a good idea at all and the warnings about possible corrosion should be heeded.

In use ethanol contains more oxygen so will lean the mixture slightly, check the condition of your plugs and maybe go up a main jet size to compensate.

Has anyone else picked up on the irony that whilst we’re all being encouraged (seems almost forced) to reduce our Co2 emissions. The country almost came to a standstill because they couldn’t get enough ? Also has anyone ever studied the effect of millions of carbonated drinks cans being opened and consumed on a daily basis. Granted some of it gets processed by the body and comes out as a fart or burp . I think we should
all write to our MPs and demand a ban on carbonating drinks. (Beer not included obviously )

Drink hand pulled real ale.
No gas in it!

Well, today I went over to Sean's to return the favour and help sort out his old Citroen AX (won't start, some sort of ECU issue). Driving past Ramshill Esso station I noted that super unleaded is back on tap! So I went around the one-way system so I could join the queue of cars trying to fill up. I put 30 litres in, but unusually the fuel gauge reads 10% less than usual, so I must have used quite a bit of my reserve fuel over the last fortnight!

When I got back to the car there was a Skoda jammed up alongside, having failed to get past my car and leaving only 1" of clearance - they couldn't go forward without hitting the Nova, couldn't go backwards because a lorry had tried to get in behind. I had to clamber over from the passenger side to get to the driving seat!

This was at 9:15 this morning - I have been through town twice today, first coming back from Sean's at 1pm and later on taking my mother for her COVID booster at 4pm. The queues are even worse! It seems everyone is doing exactly the opposite of what the Government told us to do - panic buying!

Well, here's hoping it calms down soon, it was bad enough driving around town on my freshly modified front suspension without the extra worry of where the next fuel stop will be

Lauren

I hope you robustly expressed your opinions about the Skoda position on the forecourt Lauren!

Boston all but ran out of diesel tonight, seems panic buying stupidity has progressed from bread loaves and bog roll

You start to loose faith in mankind sometimes.
I think 24/7 news doesn't help either. They tell us a story then it just spirals out of control. Common sense seems to be a dying thing now a days.
If only I knew how to invent an app to put on a smart phone.....................

It’s incredibly annoying, and making it the lead headline news story didn’t help.

As soon as I saw it I told the other half it would mean massive queues and petrol stations running out.

Due to an issue with her car I was commuting in the ‘sud. No problem getting on a pump and filling up at 5am on the way to work yesterday. But now my mito is empty and apparently I have to go and queue to fill it up. I don’t quite see how that works, it was half full when I lest used it on Wednesday, while her now fixed merc is sitting with 3/4 of a tank!

Hoping all those who were going to panic have already done so and things will calm down a bit over the next couple of days.

Just read on a local news website that Tesco's are supplied by Esso, so presumably Tesco's E5 is ethanol free. Although I don't suppose that will be for long.