76 sud tidy up and respray

[sudboy1490]

I suspect you knew exactly what you where getting yourself into with yours

[junior]

I like the idea of the seam sealer on the rear windows. Prevention being better than cure.

The only thing is that I have to take mine back out to do that which feels wrong.

Especially as I seem to have ground to a halt at the moment. You are doing very well. Impressed !

[sudboy1490]

Thanks Junior, crack on mate be well worth it

[sudboy1490]

Spent some time putting the sud back together this week, took it for test this morning and with a bit of tweeking got it through ok Next thing i wanted to look at on the car was the suspension. Iv had a Justsuds lowering kit on it for 3 yrs and always thought it was a bit high in the rear compared to the front (20mm difference). Lately iv been talking to john and Keith about his suspension, trying to find a solution! Then i went and found some lower rear springs stashed away in the back of the garage. I tried them on the car and today i got to try them out on a good run. Iv found that although the car sits level now, it looks way too low for road use and the rear tyres catch the arches on bumps! To be honest these 13/7 wheels seem a little too wide, theyr always going to be prone to catching. So tonight iv put the Justsuds rear springs back in and now i need to make the front 20mm higher to level the car out. I think fitting alfa33 front spring pans will raise it 10mm and then maybe making some kind of 10mm spacer to go between those and the bearing!

Anyone got and ideas as to what else might work?

First photos are of it with the lower rear springs along with justsuds front (level but really low), then later with the justsud kit all round, you can see the difference front to back!!

[Kegsti66]

She is looking great Col.
This spring height thing is a challenge to sort.
I am still looking into it for mine.
Low looks good, but it seems to be all or nothing and you need to live with the car in every day road use.
Simon (Marlow) has a S3 that sits just right in my opinion. That is how I want mine to sit...................... work in progress !!

[Kegsti66]

Col, does your suspension parts look like this ?
All this talk of spring pans and 33 pans confuse me.
I have seen the difference between shallow and deep pans but the centre hole seems to be a worry.
My shocks have a very thick body and if I change springs (I am looking into standard 33 springs ?) it is the best time to also do the shocks.
My units have the securing nut at the bottom of the strut base so replacement shocks seem to be hard to find. As I put on another thread, my car does have some differences to later cars and I am worried I will get parts that don't fit it.
It was a long time ago that I took all this to pieces and want to do the homework before I take it to bits again as it will have to be all done in a day, then driven back home as I can't work on the car at home easily.

[sudboy1490]

Yeah Keith my suspension looks like that, theyr just the standard sud stuff, the alfa 33 spring pans are the shallower type you mention. Along with alfasud springs they help lift the front up as most modern lowering springs are based on the 33 set up, i.e. the front springs are lower. This certainly seems to be the case with the Justsud springs although they are orientated correctly unlike all other lowering springs iv tried over the years! Normally you have to rotate the upper spring pan by quater of a turn to fit lowering springs to a sud..

Can i ask why your wanting to change to 33 springs? To lower it in the front?

[Kegsti66]

I have heard that 33 springs off series 1 &2 cars are shorter than Suds, but not S3.
So the plan was to try a set of them as I only want a little drop, not the big one I had with lowering springs. Your car looked as if it sat as low as mine did.
This is a post I saw on AO a few years ago, unless someone knows this is inaccurate.

"If you wanted to lower it you can use the sud spring pans with standard 33 springs, check this out before buying anything if on a budget, as said, sud spring pans are deeper, as the sud springs are longer then 33 springs and therefore on 33 springs the car will sit lower. With lowered 33 springs and sud spring pans I got a 60mm drop. Watch out for camber when going this low. ser 3 33 setup is different because they sit lower than a ser 1 or 2 33 and have the holes on the strut at a different place so the camber is normal. you can drill out the top 3 holes on the strut and use off centric sleeves to get rid of too much camber if you use ser 1 or 2 33 struts.
Check the spring coils ends are the same from the sud and 33 springs. one type ends with the ends inline and one at 90degress difference. If they are different you need to turn the top rubbers to make sure the bottom of the spring sits correctly and cut out the locating notch or fit the correct rubbers for the spring, or the spring and spring pan will rub on the inside of the body work, been there done that
ser 2/3 33 uses plastic fag bearings and ser 1 33 use metal roller bearings, sud use metal roller bearings. the bearings are not inter chargeable from plastic/metal, as the platform the bearings sit on are different on the struts, but the pans will fit on either. there are 2 types of sud bearings, one that sits under the pan and one that goes through the pan, which has a larger hole in it.
Hope that gives you lots of options and hasn't confused you "

What do you think ?

Cheers, Keith.

[sudboy1490]

After talking with John from justsuds today I think the best option is to try putting a 20mm spacer between the pan and bearing to lift the front up level with the rear on my car Keith. I'm not sure you'd get a 60mm drop from switching from sud to 33 springs, not in the rear anyhow, im not sure but i don't think there's that much difference. Be interesting to see a set of 33springs up against sud ones for comparison!

[Kegsti66]

Col, I will let you know the outcome if I get a set.
I don't want a big drop, tried that, too low and hard.
There is no rush, not planning to try and do it straight away.

[KevJTD]

what about trying a pair of thses col on the rear, space out the top coil. should gain you 10 to 20mm i'd have thought?
easy enough to fit too without nedding to drop the whole thing out.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RUBBER-COIL-S ... 3aad317296

[rsfruitbat]

Could I suggest giving Gaz a ring.

They converted some struts to use one of their shockers and also go to 2.25" springs. Pick your spring height and poundage and tweek with height adjuster on the strut. Job done

A pair cost me about £320 18months ago. Shockers can be rebuilt for £40 each. They have stood up to the abuse I have given them in rallying.

rsfruitbat

[sudboy1490]

Kev iv got a set of those rubber spring dampers in the garage, i tried them on a sud years ago that was catching. Didn't do anything to be honest mate

Thanks fruitbat its a good idea but id like to find a cheaper option first if possible!

I wonder how a standard set of front 33 springs would work out if they give anyway near the 60mm drop Keiths talking about?

Has anyone got any experience of using them?

[sudboy1490]

Ah i mis-read that Keith its 60mm with lowering springs. Iv found a thread that says standard 33 springs on a sud gives a 25mm drop but the springs are softer so not such a good option!!

[Kegsti66]

Oh Bugger !!
I thought it would be a good compromise as surly a 33 is a heavier car.
Might still try as I only use the car on the road, or do you think it will really mess things up ?

[sudboy1490]

id say its worth a try keith

[sudboy1490]

Gave a strut and bearing to an engineer pal of mine last night, he's going to try making a 20mm spacer for the bearing to sit on. Hopefully this will do the trick or its back to the drawing board

[Kegsti66]

Good luck Col.
I will still give the 33 springs a try, once I get a reply from a guy with some bits for sale.
Also wondering if it is worth getting some later GC struts to use with the other type of shocks so that the originals stay complete. That way I can get it all prepped up then just swap, rather than stripping and running into any potential problems on the day
Like I say, this is jobs for the future.

[sudboy1490]

my mate called with the spacers tonight, i think they'll do just fine

[Kegsti66]

That looks promising Col.
So just to clarify, this is an early strut, like mine?, and will this use the original pan or does a 33 spring pan get used ?
Matching lowering springs and standard shocks, or uprated?

Which car will this set up go on?
You have been busy.

[Gary Orchard]

That solution is a bit like what the first 33 sportwagon had - the 4x4 one

They had a thicker strut bearing housing rather than a spacer but it gives the same result to raise the ride height

[sudboy1490]

yes it should be just like your suspension Keith, its the blue sud am working on, iv used the standard shocks and sud spring pans along with a justsuds lowering kit and now these 20mm spacers which have worked a treat. It looks to sit at a lot better height and the same height all round now I also slotted the holes in the bottom of the strut to correct the excessive camber! Iv been meaning to do this for a while now and thought i might as well do it today while i had it in bits, didn't take long once id made a template from my s2 which has had the holes slotted already

I wonder why they'd need to put a thicker bearing in a sport wagon Gary, seems strange they'd need to alter the ride height like that from factory?

[Kegsti66]

That looks spot on Colin in my opinion.
I bet you are well pleased.
Do you think the 4x4 33 did it to give the car a higher ground clearence?
She is about done now then, time to enjoy your labours.