Series 1 Ti apparently not for sale!

[Alfasam]

Saw this great looking Rosso Alfa series 1 Ti on a private collectors website yesterday and thought it might be for sale.

I messaged the owner to see what his plans were for the car as the site looks a bit like a dealer stock presentation.

Have now heard back from the owner: Alex Ruggeri, and apparently he is not considering selling it at the moment because he recognises how hard they are to find.

Think I have seen the car before, and possibly met Alex too - maybe at SAD last year?

Here is the link: http://depoca.co.uk/stock/1976-alfa-rom ... d-1200-ti/

[Alfasam]

Another series 1 Ti, an early 1974 car has just been sold by a dealer in the Netherlands, so have asked them what they price they sold their example for.

Link: http://www.bigboystoys.nl/Alfa-Romeo/AL ... o=gallerij

If I hear back from the Dutch dealer as well it will be interesting to know where the European specialist trade think the price of a good Ti series 1 has now got to, given the rapid increase in classic car values over the last few years.

Recent chrome bumper Sprint sales in the £12-15,000 range may well give an indication of what these great little cars could now be worth, but I don't have enough info yet to be sure. However, given that they are probably the most desirable/sought after Alfa Romeo 900 series model it does not seem a completely daft theory, all the same!

Do any other forum members have views/information on where they think Sud Ti series 1 prices might have got to?

[Series 2 Missionary]

Hi Alfasam,

Looking forward to seeing your lovely Super out soon. I had a quick look at the thread looks like a truly terrific job you're doing. Any chance we'll see it at a show in 2016?

Regarding 'Sud prices, it's always an interesting topic, and as a 'Sud owner myself I don't really mind if they climb a bit more. Having said that though my own feeling is that there may be people trying these cars at 12-15k but I've seen little or no evidence of them getting it. It seems to be the Sprints that are tried at that money which are very nice cars but for me surely no more desirable than an early Ti.

I don't want to put anyone's nose out of joint by appearing to talk them down, - I doubt I would on here as people are genuine enthusiasts not in it for the money. But for me an A1 Sud is still probably topping out at 7-8k. This is based on the limited knowledge I have of what they have actually changed hands for, not what they've been advertised at and even this far exceeds the classic car press 'price guides'. A series 1 ti is probably the most desirable but the actual model doesn't seem to make that much difference and I know some people prefer the later, more powerful cars.

I don't know what I think about it really. When I see cars advertised at 12-15k I do think they're trying it on a bit but on the other hand why should they be only worth half the price of an old Ford Escort.

[Kegsti66]

Saw this series great looking Rosso Alfa series 1 Ti on a private collectors website yesterday and thought it might be for sale.

I messaged the owner to see what his plans were for the car as the site looks a bit like a dealer stock presentation.

Have now heard back from the owner: Alex Ruggeri, and apparently he is not considering selling it at the moment because he recognises how hard they are to find.

Think I have seen the car before, and possibly met Alex too - maybe at SAD last year?

Here is the link: http://depoca.co.uk/stock/1976-alfa-rom ... d-1200-ti/

Yes it was at Duxford, i had a chat with the owner. He brought it over later in the afternoon to photograph it with mine. I presume it is still the same guy.
Keith.

[PETROLHEAD]

Hi all

my two penneth regarding pricing, although heard by many of you before, would be as follows...


We the owners, and potentially the sellers have the biggest part of the pricing under our own control. Its not that we can all agree to the pound on everyone elses car evaluation, but as rough guide, we have a responsibility to agree on just how rare our cars are, how they differ in repairs and spares potential, and also of course our personal attachment or reasons for buying and/or selling.

Historically, we've probably all been heard saying "I bought it with my heart, not my head!" type of statement, but when it comes to selling them again, unless there is an element of hard luck story to it, we have to use our heads a lot more.

If we, the Sud owners and enthusiasts are willing to sell them cheaply, they will always remain that way to the rest of the classic car circle aswell. We have a duty to appreciate, love and cherish our brilliant little cars, and one of the ways to convince the rest of the world how viable they are as a practical classic is to also show that they are not just money pits, but a viable investment for restoration etc


If folk can see that finally a 5k, or even 10k restoration doesn't have to end in financial ruin, then they become entirely more desirable, and prices will keep increasing, and they will be achieved successfully.


In other words we have to drive the market ourselves in the right direction, even if it means that our next "project" car is more expensive initially to buy. That being the case, popularity stretches and grows beyond this group of dedicated alfisti, and fingers crossed, more cars are unearthed, more spares become available, and possibly even some parts and pieces are independently made or fabricated again.


I do know of someone who also happens to be the person that to my mind probably achieved the largest price tag i know for an Alfasud Sprint so far, well into the teens it made, and simply because they refused to sell it for any less, and for all the reasons above. It was pretty good mind, of course it was, but not "perfect".

There's plenty of scope for improvement on our prices and evaluations yet, and if we agree on the above, this year and next should be very kind to us,

But as if we'd ever sell our Alfasuds!

[Kegsti66]

Well said that man.
That is so true. I know they will never match 105 series cars for value, but even they used to be scrap value once.

[PETROLHEAD]

I know they will never match 105 series cars for value, but even they used to be scrap value once.

Quite correct,

Front of the class young man!

[jobeed]

I think most would agree. with somethings in life, there are two 'values' what the market dictates and what it is worth to the owner. These can often be very different with items that are irreplaceable or difficult to replace.

I found my dog in a French supermarket carpark when he was about 2 weeks old. Abandoned. Cost nothing. Market value a couple of hundred quid at most, what would I sell him for? There is literally no price.

As sud / sprint fans we have been lucky they have been low value because we like the cars not their status on investment potential.

I am certain there are members on here who have the means to buy much more expensive classics and probably have those too. But they love the little alfasud.

If I'm honest I probably have a price at which I would sell my box of bits, but it's an unrealistic price that no one in their right mind would pay. But I would give bits away free if it helped someone out. Assuming I could manage without.

I am not ashamed to admit that if when mine is complete values have risen so much it's worth the same as an early 911 I'd be very happy! Bur equally. Even if it's never worth as much as the cost of rebuilding. I won't be disappointed.

An acquaintance has a race prepared daytona, and a fulvia coupe, he has owned them both for years, but ask him which he prefers and he says it's really really too close to call. In financial terms they are miles apart.

Cracking little cars suds!

[88liam]

Classic Car Values,

Allthough we would all like to see our suds rise in value i believe there to be negative effects,
increase in insurance prelims, once values increase so will theft,
the value of spare parts will increase. look at the Ford RS scene.

Not wanting to offend any classic car dealers, if any on the forum, i have allways been interested
in Lancia integrales, Ferrari Dino308 GT4s and BMW M3 CSLs, all off which on face value have doubled if not tripled
in value over the last 4 years, having owned a Evo 2 integrale and regretted selling it, i have been monitoring
who,s selling what, the cars with 30K+ price tags have been sat in showrooms for 2 years and are not selling,
the same goes for the BMW M3 50k +, Ferrari 308 Dino GT4s have dealer price tags of 50k+ two gt4s
recently sold at different auctions for circular 30k both in what appeared to be outstanding condition.

The surge in classic car values i believe to be driven by the increase in classic car dealers , low interest rates
and investors putting there money into classic car stock.

The saying of what something is advertised for and what it sells for comes to mine.

Rant Over,

Liam

[Marlow Sud]

Hi Guys,
So I am at the Ferrari garage because a wealthy mate has asked me go along. Anyway, the car is the GTC4 Lusso. Lovely but £250K.
The Ferrari salesmen can smell i can't afford one. What car have you got he says. Love that question. Love giving the answer. An Alfasud ti.
The dealership sells 30 used cars a month. Some of them are worth millions.
A couple of salesmen were talking that morning about which cars to buy as a future investment. The two cars that came up?
Alfasud and Golf GTi Mk1.
They will gladly sell the Sud for me in the showroom. This is the premier UK Ferrari showroom. Look after those Suds guys.

[Alfasam]

I have now received feedback on enquiries made about recent sales and been given an insight into the thinking from trade sources on where series 1 Ti values have got to:

It should not surprise me really - in Northern Europe we are looking at £12-18K range for cars that would classify condition 1-2 for auction purposes.
An exceptional original condition concourse car with known history (like NUM 56P that was mentioned in a recent post on this forum) would very likely clear £20K now to a serious collector. This contention is well supported by unsolicited/serious offers that have been made recently to several collectors who own condition 1-2 series 1 Ti cars. What's more the thinking is that the values of the best cars will keep climbing as historically low interest rates persist for the next few years. The move towards tangible assets by investors will continue and collector quality cars are one of the key areas that have a lot of focus on them right now - in particular the 1970's as nostalgia for that era increases. The price drivers are likely to continue to be very strong for the rest of the decade.

I was told that the sheer rarity of the series 1 Ti cars combined with the lack of parts supply stopping top quality restorations from being achievable gives the best cars an added dimension from a collectors perspective. They simply cannot be rebuilt in the way an Escort or Mini can to top standard using many reproduction parts. This means there is a very small pool of chrome bumper Alfasud Ti and Sprint cars out there that will ever be grade 1 collector quality, hence the relatively high values that are now being achieved for such cars. People are buying these cars with a view to tucking them away for the future because like the Mk 1 Golf GTI they have looked very undervalued compared to some of their contemporaries until quite recently

The perception is that the chrome bumper cars are where the serious collector interest is always going to be focussed. As mentioned in one of the posts on this thread chrome bumper Sprint Veloce values have reached the mid teens in the UK for the best examples in known transactions - added to which I have been told about several Euro 20K sales of condition 1 cars that have taken place on the Continent in the last 12 months.

As a serious collector said to me recently, when 1275 GT Mini Clubman's are making £20K why would a top condition series 1 Alfasud Ti be any less valuable?

[PETROLHEAD]

As a serious collector said to me recently, when 1275 GT Mini Clubman's are making £20K why would a top condition series 1 Alfasud Ti be any less valuable?

My point exactly, and the rest of the post reads very true too.

My suspicion of the answer as to "Why would a top condition s1 be any less valuable?" is because only until recently have we tried to achieve any more than £5/6/7k for the nicest UK cars, so as i said before, the answer is US!, the owners.


Not any more.......

[Fiatchris]

I stopped reading at "selling Sud"

[Marlow Sud]

Hi Fiat Chris,

I agree but I have too many. I can't work on them all and its not right if a car sits in storage.
I sold my red series 1 to an Alfa fan who will bring the car on to the next stage.
I am going to sell my black series 2 which has 20,000 miles on it. Its not concours but it is very original.
I have really enjoyed it but someone needs to take it to the next stage. I still have two other Suds which we are constantly upgrading and enjoying.

Brgds,
Simon

[Kegsti66]

I am going to sell my black series 2 which has 20,000 miles on it. Its not concours but it is very original.
Brgds,
Simon

Wish i had a bigger garage and some cash

[PETROLHEAD]

I am going to sell my black series 2 which has 20,000 miles on it. Its not concours but it is very original.
I have really enjoyed it but someone needs to take it to the next stage. I still have two other Suds which we are constantly upgrading and enjoying.

Brgds,
Simon

And I can vouch what a lovely car that is too, very nice indeed



Now, i'm not sure if he's aware of this discussion yet, but Alex has joined the forum a couple of days back, under the name Marcello i believe.

I'm sure he'd be up for a chat to confirm any remaining queries

[Spacenut]

I love the Campag wheels on this car. It was featured in an issue of AR Driver last year. There's not much in ARD worth looking at these days (all modern Alfas, sign of the times I suppose), so this was definitely one of the highlights of 2015 for me (plus the welcome return of Ed McDonough of course).

Lauren

[PETROLHEAD]

Judging by the photo above Lauren, that's Peter Grommet eyeing them up too!

[Kegsti66]

I love the Campag wheels on this car.
Lauren

[Spacenut]

Thanks Keith - now THAT's what I call wheels!

[Veesix75]

Anglia car auctions in 2 weeks might help set the benchmark on market price.....

[PETROLHEAD]

Just very briefly hijacking, if anyone fancies a set of these early Alfetta Campagnola's, 6j x 14", possibly a lightweight alloy mix, i have a set to sell either as they are (no tyres) or refurbished.

They are a rare wheel, and in 4x98 unlike most other period models, so a bit out there on their own!

[Alfasam]

Another nice wheel that is currently available in size 5.5 x 13 as a reproduction item are the Cromodora CD30 wheels:

Link: http://www.ebay.de/itm/4-Alfa-Romeo-Alf ... gxSRao2QOA

Here are some pics of these lovely period look wheels:

And a set fitted to an Italian registered tuned Sud series 1 Berlina around 1974. Tasty