Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

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rsfruitbat
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by rsfruitbat »

Car 85 on Sunday. If anyone is coming over come and say hello. Look for the Alfa flag in the service area..

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KevJTD
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by KevJTD »

See you there mate, are you staying on site Saturday night?
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rsfruitbat
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by rsfruitbat »

Hi Kev
Great to see you again on Sunday. Perhaps one of these days we will meet in decent weather.

Anyway didn't have a good event.
Started off with taking the exhaust off the car when I was putting it on the trailer. No idea why, never happened before. :evil:
Anyway back off the trailer, up on the ramps, sumpguard off and remount the exhaust.
Job done, off to cadwell.
4hrs later arrive at cadwell :D
First event in ages where scrutineering went back to normal. Id forgotten how much fun it is stood around for ages in a bitter cold wind waiting for someone to pull your pride and joy to pieces.
Bearing mind that the car was built in the early 90's the scrutineering had a problem with the roll cage :roll: . I have welded my clamps that join one section of the cage to another. Blue book says it can Be fully welded or bolted. Scrutineer agreed what I had done was stronger but was concerned it was not covered. Anyway 20mins later and after input from chief scrutineer sense prevailed and they said we could play.
Phewwwwww. :D
Weather on Sunday was rubbish and circuit was very slippy. Discovered my balls aren't big enough for these high speed corners.
In the queue for SS3 the clutch started to make a squealing noise. Car was driving ok but noise was very concerning. Consensus of opinion was it was clutch release bearing related. Carried on but always in the back of your mind if you were doing more damage.
Weather dried for the middle of the day and circuit dried out apart from in the trees. Started to push on a bit more.
Big delay before the last pair of stages so that everyone ran in the dark. While we are waiting heaven's open.
Time to call it quits. Put the car on the trailer. As least it's in one piece and still working
Once we got home on Monday, once stuff was put away next job was to take the engine and box out. Two and a half hours laterits on the floor in bits.
Clutch plate was worn and rivets had just started to kiss the clutch cover.
Spoke to helix on Monday and if I could get the clutch to them they might be able to repair it. Decided to drive it down to banbury. Got there and agreed they would see what could be done.
Wednesday midday get acall to say clutch is ready but they had found some problems with the cover. Back to Banbury, pay bill ( ouch ) take clutch home. Spent Wednesday evening fitting the clutch,getting the gearbox back onto the engine, hanging it all back in place, connecting backup.
Gave up with about an hours work left to do.

Thursday, get a text about 1:30 , rally this weekend cancelled. Don't know weather to laugh of cry.
Anyway, repairs now done so I can start getting ready for Donnington at the start of December

That's Motorsport I suppose.

Rsfruitbat

junior
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by junior »

That sounds like hard work esp at the moment when most jobs are slowed up one way or the other.

rsfruitbat
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by rsfruitbat »

Car 89 this Sunday

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rsfruitbat
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by rsfruitbat »

Another bad day.
Rear beam badly cracked after SS2
End of play

Will post some pics once it's off

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KevJTD
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by KevJTD »

Damn, that's bad mate. You just don't seem to be getting much luck of late do you.
An old workmate went and sent me a short vid, I'll post it to cheer you up!
Giulietta JTD 170
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Flavia coupe 1.8 1963
Lancia Dedra turbo
Renault Clio 197 RS

I'm bad with people things
But I should have tried more

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KevJTD
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by KevJTD »

Giulietta JTD 170
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Flavia coupe 1.8 1963
Lancia Dedra turbo
Renault Clio 197 RS

I'm bad with people things
But I should have tried more

rsfruitbat
Posts: 773
Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:54 am

Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by rsfruitbat »

Great vid. Thanks
I was really enjoying it and to be honest car was handling great. Just a shame it was over so soon. I'll post some pics once I've got the beam off.
Never seen one go like this before. Usually with the stronger springs and the shock loading I tend to punch bottom out of the spring wells and bottom shocker mounting. This one it looks like the welds failed and then it started splitting vertically.

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LooLooSud33Spider
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by LooLooSud33Spider »

EEEK !!
Alfasud Ti 1984
Alfa Spider 2.0 Ts 916
Alfa Spider 20v Turbo

rsfruitbat
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by rsfruitbat »

Can I pick the collectives group knowledge???

Did a rally yesterday and had some problems.
Car runs fine up to about 5-6k rpm. After this, any gear, power just started dropping off.
Changed crank sensor, plugs, coil pack, fuel filter, fuel and nothing changed symptoms.
All parts swapped are less than 12 months old. Engine loom was changed 6 months ago.
Any thoughts on what to try next?

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LooLooSud33Spider
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by LooLooSud33Spider »

Ade. I’d put a fuel pressure gauge inline to check if the pressure drop at all as revs increase. After that I’d check the power curve in the map.

Lou
Alfasud Ti 1984
Alfa Spider 2.0 Ts 916
Alfa Spider 20v Turbo

junior
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by junior »

How about the fuel pick up in the tank ? Though Looloo's suggestion should show that up.

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LooLooSud33Spider
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by LooLooSud33Spider »

I was thinking along the lines if a pick up tube problem in the tank causing a pressure drop under higher flow conditions.
Alfasud Ti 1984
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rsfruitbat
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by rsfruitbat »

Thanks for replies so far.
I was thinking a fuel issue aswell.
One thing I haven't done in a while is to change the fuel pipe around the tank, swirl pot fuel pumps etc.
I'll investigate what you have suggested

Rsfruitbat

rsfruitbat
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by rsfruitbat »

Well after replacing all the hoses,replacing fuel pumps, filter and pressure regulator. It turned out that the throttle position sensor had failed.
What a right royal pain in the arse.
At least it runs again now.
Which is lucky because the wife had put an entry for a rally this sunday at Abingdon in oxfordshire.
She's driving and I'm co-driving for her. Last time I did that was about 1994.
There is another 33 doing the event which is unusual. It started off as a S3 P4. But he got fed up of breaking it so he changed it over to use an impreza engine transmission and running gear

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LooLooSud33Spider
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by LooLooSud33Spider »

Ahhh That’ll be the ALFARU I bought some bits off him many years ago can’t remember exactly where he’s based or his name other than that I remember the occasion Vividly !

His name could be Dave Barbera ?
Alfasud Ti 1984
Alfa Spider 2.0 Ts 916
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rsfruitbat
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by rsfruitbat »

Yep. That's him. Luckily he had a better day than we did.
First stage, Having done about 7 miles the engine decided to throw all its oil over the N\S of the engine bay blowing out the oil filler cap.
Suspicion is a broken ring or holed piston but that doesn't explain the fact it's lost a load of water. Engine still turns over with no bangs or rattles.
When I can raise some enthusiasm I'll investigate further.

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LooLooSud33Spider
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by LooLooSud33Spider »

Damn that’s a bugger Ade. If you need any parts blocks etc just shout
Alfasud Ti 1984
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rsfruitbat
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by rsfruitbat »

Will do. Thanks Lol
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rsfruitbat
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by rsfruitbat »

Will do. Thanks Loo
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by rsfruitbat »

Hi all
Well I have investigated further and it's buggered.
Theory is that no4 big end has picked up.
This has then seized and the big end bolts have snapped.
The con rod has then got bashed around and took out the bottom of the bore into the water gallery and the piston skirt.
Haven't took the head off yet but I suspect bent valves. As a starting point.

I had been thinking of a plan B which involved going to 87 mms bore with a bespoke crank.
However I discovered yesterday that the firm that was going to do the crank for me has gone bump during covid.

Looking at what options are left but if anyone knows of a company that will do a bespoke crank for sensible money I would be very interested.

Will keep you all updated as things develope.

Rsfruitbat

Kegsti66
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by Kegsti66 »

Sorry to hear that Ady, hope you can get something sorted and that the heads are saveable..

rsfruitbat
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by rsfruitbat »

Hi all
Thought it was time for an update.
Quick recap. 1400 is buggered, bottom end is scrap, heads and cams salvageable.
So if I am going to start from scratch with a bottom end I started looking at different options.
I still want to stay with the 1400cc. Initially I was looking to go big bore and a 59mms stroke. After doing some investigating the boxer is already very oversized and the belief is that going even squarer would have a big negative impact on torque. So then I started thinking about what it I went the other extreme and used a 72mms crank? This would mean a bore of 78.6mm. Would the 16V heads foul the bores? I had a small spacer made up that simulated 78.6
When a 16V head and valves were then fitted when you operated the inlet valves you could here them just catch the spacer but couldn't feel it. Belief is rustic I get some ears machined into the top of the bores that will solve that problem.
So if I go down this route I need an 80mms bore block. Guess what? That's one I didn't have.
Luckily Lou put me in contact with another forum member who had one for sale.I
Anyway time is marching on and I'm getting nowhere fast. So I come up with this master plan to fit a standard 1700 to get the rally car mobile again so it can be used whilst the 1400 gets sorted.
After phoning round a few people I managed to locate a complete engine, low milage, ready to fit. Does law was I picked it up and then went on how for 10 days. When I got back I started getting it ready to fit. I soon found a problem that the engine wouldn't fully rotate, only about 300 degrees.
Over the next week I ended up totally stripping the engine to find the cause. Unfortunately the engine had bad water damage. After contacting the seller he was very apologetic and offered me another engine. This was duly collected and the process starting again.
What I've ended up with is what am calling a Frankenstein engine as I've used bits from the two replacement engines as well as my original 1400.
Ended up getting it running the night before we went on holiday to Malta. The reason for the push on timing is there is a rally I like to doing mid october. So the day after we came back from Malta the car went to the rolling road.
Things went well initially surprising the rolling road operator with 155bhp and 135lbs/ft torque by the end. On the last acceleration run the engine suddenly started running rough. On investigation the one can pulley but had come undone,the allergic key had come out and the cam timing moved by about 45 degrees. Started investigating about 6am and finished about 9pm after taking the head off to check for bent valves and replace the damaged cam and pulley. That was the Wednesday and we left for the rally early on Friday morning. On the Saturday weather was rubbish and wasn't forecast to be any better for the next day either. Sunday dawned bright and dry after a night of rain and gales. Anyway first two stages went really well. Not used to having this much lower and car was handling like a dream. Really pleased with how things were going.
SS3 after about 7 miles, out of the blue the gearbox starts making a noise so I pull over and park the car. End of rally.
When we got the car back home I dropped the sump off the gearbox and there are teeth missing off the crown wheel and pinion.
So, the engine is back on the floor and the diffs out the box. As it's a quite ill get it sent off for checking over and the same with the gearset.
What I am after is an 8 bolt CW&P set with a 4:1 ratio if anyone has one they want to sell.
Onward and upward as they say

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KevJTD
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by KevJTD »

Damn that's just so frustrating after all the effort, guess the extra power and torque found the next weak spot!
You can't seem to get any luck with the car can you, must be really trying your patience..
Giulietta JTD 170
Lancia Delta integrale
Lancia Flavia coupe 1.8 1963
Lancia Dedra turbo
Renault Clio 197 RS

I'm bad with people things
But I should have tried more

rsfruitbat
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by rsfruitbat »

That's. One way of putting it. It just seems it's one thing after another for the last few years.
Gearbox and diff were both built to handle a lot more power so it's a bit of a mystery. Perhaps it's shock loads because I was chucking it about quite a lot and there were a few surface changes.
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rsfruitbat
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by rsfruitbat »

The misery continues.
Fitted the spare gearbox whilst the original was getting rebuilt. Car running again so put the snow tyres on and laid it up for the winter.
6 weeks later thought I best get her running ready for next rally. Ticked over find for 5mins then as soon as I tried to rev it it started misfiring and popping and banging. Wouldn't run clean at all so ended up cancelling the entry for the next rally.
Got the car booked in at the rolling road as I couldn't identify the cause and suspected it could be the throttle position sensor again. Car wouldn't start at all now.
Trip to Cheltenham confirmed the diagnosis. However they don't now make that type so had to make some adaptors to get a different type to fit.
So another trip to Cheltenham to get the TPS calibrated. Left the car there as he was fitting it in around other stuff. Got a call later to say car starts and runs now but running like a bag of nails. Cylinders 1&2 not really doing a lot. Have I got a spare coil pack? Yes so back to Cheltenham again the next day. Fitted the coil and guess what? No difference.
Dave said on the laptop everything looks fine so he suspected there might be internal problems and there was nothing he could do. Guess what? I hadn't taken the trailer. So, back to kidder to get the trailer. Back to Cheltenham to get the car and then back to kidder.
Over the weekend I did the compressions expecting low figures from broken rings etc. However the figures were fine so pretty confused now. So over the weekend I have changed p!ugs, injectors, leads all providing no improvement. The one thing I did which I didn't understand was I swapped the injector wiring plugs round in lots of different combinations. Nothing seemed to significantly change the way the car was running and I thought it should have. When the car starts it won't tickover and you have to keep it revving. In doing this it's chucking blue smoke out and a strong smell of fuel.
Next step is to send the edu of for checking over.

If anyone has any other suggestions on what to try it would be much appeciated.
Second rally cancelled.

Rsfruitbat

rsfruitbat
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by rsfruitbat »

Ones have now got the ecu and can't find a fault. They have suggested checking over the 18 month old wiring loom!
They are going to hang on to the edu until I ask for it back of they can try it on a car.

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Spacenut
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by Spacenut »

Hi Fruity - I am not an authority on EFI systems, but it doesn't sound like an ECU problem to me. The fact that you are getting spark, and fuel, confirms it I think.

Your comment about swapping the injector leads with no apparent effect bothered me too, but the fact that you have unburned fuel in the exhaust, and need to keep the engine revs up to avoid stalling suggests to me that you are running on less than the full complement of cylinders anyway, so swapping the injector leads from a cylinder that wasn't firing anyway would not make a lot of difference.

The ignition works on a "wasted spark" principle, where it fires a pair of cylinders, one at TDC compression stroke and one on the exhaust stroke, where all it can do is ignite unburned fuel.

It also sounds like your crank sensor is working otherwise I cannot see how the engine would run at all.

Could it be the Lambda (O2) sensor that has failed? They operate in a harsh environment and without the feedback the ECU will increase the fuel ratio to try and compensate - which might explain the unburned fuel in the exhaust.

As you say, the TPS could be another culprit, but it sounds like you have already checked that one out.

I guess another possibility could be the cold start circuit, do boxer injection systems have a cold start injector and a coolant temperature sensor? If so, this could be enriching the mixture...

I suppose the other end of the fueling equation would be MAF sensor in the throttle body, flap or hot wire, if it is faulty it will affect how much fuel the ECU has to inject into the cylinders.

Sorry it is just random ramblings, but there might be something useful. You could try unplugging each of the above in turn and seeing if it makes any difference???

Bon Chance!

Lauren

rsfruitbat
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Re: Alfa 33 1400 16V Rallycar

Post by rsfruitbat »

Hi Lauren
Sorry to hear of the problems with the green machine :( the
Any ideas appreciated to be honest.
We have swapped out the coil pack with no improvement.
There is no lambda probe in normal running. When it's on the the rollers he fits a lambda probe for setting up but takes it out once the maps complete.
Regarding additional sensors the readings coming back are normal. There isn't a MAF.
Trying to contact omex at the moment and see if I can take the car down plug in the edu and see if they get the same results. The readings co.ing back to the ecu are good. What we don't know is If the ecu is sending out the right signals?
Other than that it will be back to basics and try and go through things one item at a time.
All the best

Rsfruitbat

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