Snetterton 19/20 Sept

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Marlow Sud
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Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Marlow Sud »

Hi Guys,
I was asked a couple of times today when the next CTCRC race was.
Ted says he might take the green meanie and enter in X Class!

The Trofeo front shockers have dumped all their oil so the car is not available.
Anyway, I promised Ian I would take the Golf :shock: and a bottle of wine in case I lose the bet.

All the best,
Simon
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Marlow Sud
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Marlow Sud »

Hi Guys,

Snetterton was really good. Thanks to Ted for some top tips on how to drive Snetterton. Malcolm triumphed in the Sud.

I had fuel starvation issues in race 1 and retired after 3 laps. For race 2 I was four cars behind Malcolm on the grid. I caught him up with half a lap to go and he went off like a scalded cat.
The video from the Golf may be interesting in that it shows quite a bit of the Alfetta and Alfasud SC. Its not the usual standard as my son is back at University.

You might want to watch Malcolms Video first.

https://vimeo.com/140032496

All the best,
Simon

Oxfordshire driver
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Oxfordshire driver »

Yep, we had a lot of fun at Snetterton as Simon has said in his post.
Less than a second separated us at the chequered flag, this would have been a different outcome if I had gone left off the start line rather than right. The Batmobile BMW had trouble getting off the line and compromised some on the left side of the grid.
Heartstopping moment of the race was the second corner when I very nearly stuffed into the side of a £50,000 fia spec Lotus Cortina :oops: I don't want to ever come that close again!

Some great racing, the Mini was incredible, well up to a point..
Another lap and I would have been goose-stepping from parc ferme with a bayonet gently pushing into my back!

Full video here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/n3p7wowkdjy4m ... d.mp4?dl=0 (will need to download if you want to view full 19 mins. Viewing on Dropbox only shows 15 mins)
All timings here: http://www.tsl-timing.com/event/153821

All the best,
Malcolm

Veesix75
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Veesix75 »

The golf looks quite fast in the vids, how did it feel / go?

I've just seen another for sale in white!!

Kegsti66
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Kegsti66 »

Simon and Malcolm, thanks for the clips. Great fun to watch and it is good to see the same race from different angles.
Malcolm, I like your little notes. The old mini seems to change direction mid bend at will doesn't it ?
Simon , the golf does seem quick especially as it was your first proper race in it. What let go to cause the swearing?
Cheers
Keith.

Marlow Sud
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Marlow Sud »

Hi Tim,

The Golf does seem quick and handles very well. Its not quick compared to the Escorts, Capris and Jags but some of those cars are very powerful.
Capris 250 - 300bhp, Escorts 200-250bhp, Jags >500bhp.

Some of the drivers you see are very skilled - the Mini driver is amazing. I could have carried a lot more speed into some of the bends but I need more experience.

I am told the Golf is 155bhp but I have no idea. I am also told that the 1.8 engine with standard K-Jet fuel injection can push out 175bhp and remain within the CTCRC rules.

The car can also lose 30Kg and stay within the class min weight of 905KG. I reckon this is easily achieved. Glass fibre bonnet, rear hatch and perspex windows. I will also fit a racing fuel tank as I am carrying about 35 litres in the standard tank.

Hi Keith,
There is no swearing on the video I posted up?
In race 1 the engine was cutting out on right hand bends as the fuel sloshed to the left. I was in a bend on the racing line and the engine cut and I was hit by another car not because of my car slowing massively but because he was completely bent out of shape and out of control behind me. I was seriously pissed off and there is swearing in that video but I have not put that online. There is a classic pic that Malcolm found on the CTCRC Facebook page of the moment just before I get hit.
The fuel starvation problem was cured in the short term by filling the tank nearly full. Not ideal, but the car went well enough in race 2.

All the best,
Simon

Veesix75
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Veesix75 »

No serious damage I hope?

You will get most of that weight from the glass, and you will notice the difference.

There was a golf raced in pre 83, someone might remember the power output, it was black.

Good choice of car and looks very promising.

Marlow Sud
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Marlow Sud »

Hi Tim,
I know a black one that is 210bhp. It has an American cross-flow head and carbs.

Brgds,
Simon

Marlow Sud
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Marlow Sud »

Oh dear. Its on my vimeo page.
Here is the pic:
12027254_1627997784132741_5107927704452505445_o.jpg
And the polite video:

https://vimeo.com/140245252?utm_source= ... cwMQ%3D%3D

Brgds,
Simon

Kegsti66
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Kegsti66 »

That was the one I meant but without the piano. :lol: :lol:

Marlow Sud
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Marlow Sud »

Oh yes. Apologies for that. I was very cross at getting shunted. :evil:

All the best,
Simon

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PETROLHEAD
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by PETROLHEAD »

Naughty Rocco! :lol:
SHREW

I AM the Law!


Alfasud 1.7-16v, Charade Turbo SR, & The Dirty Diesels - GT Cloverleaf, 159 Ti Sportwagon, Saab 9-3 Sportwagon

Marlow Sud
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Marlow Sud »

Schnell.
Golf leads Sud.jpg
:shock:

Great pics by Darren here guys:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... 114&type=3

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BS25
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by BS25 »

These photos and the Motors TV coverage do show the varied entry! Good stuff!

Marlow Sud
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Marlow Sud »

Hi Bryan,

There is a basic problem with the Suds racing in the CTCRC class C. We haven't got a hope in hell of winning a race based on estimated power to weight ratios:

Escort - 265bhp/tonne
Dolomite - 238bhp/tonne - Vauxhall Firenza is similar.
Sud - 169bhp/tonne
Golf Gti - 167bhp/tonne

Its even worse when you take into account the X class cars that are winning the dry day races:

XJ12 - 360bhp/tonne

I don't think we did badly for our first year but we can't get near the Firenzas, Dolomites or Escorts.
We would need to be on minimum weight and pushing out 230bhp. Not possible within the rules.
I have asked if we can be put in classes by power/weight ratio. I don't think it will happen but you have to ask.
I enjoyed the racing but think I will publish the cars power/weight ratio on the car next year and see if we can set a trend.
ie: the reason Malcolm was mixing it up with the 1380cc pre 66 mini was because the minis power to weight ratio is 181bhp/tonne.

All the best,
Simon

Kegsti66
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Kegsti66 »

Wow ! Simon, that is a big disadvantage. :o
How do the others get such a good ratio and still be within the rules ?

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BS25
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by BS25 »

Hi Simon,

That remains one of the issues of multi-class racing, the larger engined cars generally have the ability to produce more power, offsetting their often heavier mass and in many cases exceeding the mass penalty. As you will have encountered it will often make the slower big class cars fast down the straights but slower than the lower powered cars (such as the Suds) round the corners! When I raced a Sud back in the mid 90's I used to have huge battles/frustrations with the 3.0 V6 75's and 164's - what I would lose in a straight line I could make up under braking/cornering. Unfortunately if there was a straight before the finish line they would blitz past again and beat me. I had to console myself that they weren't in my class - but beating them brought greater satisfaction. The game is up when you have a much higher powered car that also handles well!

Ultimately, one has to be quicker through the corners that precede the straights so that they are only one your tail as you enter the braking zone - so you can hold them off and stay in front. Playing to the strengths of what you have really - and some circuits will play to this. You will find that if you stay clear of them then you will pull away in relation to a car you perhaps felt you had no chance of beating due to it's power advantage. The percentage deficit to Andrew Howards Jaguar at Silverstone will be much higher than it will at Cadwell, etc. The most entertaining races that you guys have excelled in this year have been in the wet where the conditions have negated their power advantage.

I have similar up against the 1100 kg V6's and 2.0 turbos - some with over 400bhp against my 240bhp and 780kg - despite the lighter weight I'm carrying a disadvantage which shows more at Silverstone and Oulton than it does at Cadwell or Croft.

I think it should be said that you have both just completed your first seasons with cars and circuits that you are learning the characteristics of - and you have both done really well :) You will most likely find that you will instantly be quicker next season at repeat races - even though you may feel no obvious improvement in your driving, it will just be a confidence thing! Any improvements to the cars will only help reduce your times. From your post above it already sounds like you are analyzing your season - I always watch previous races back and also others footage - just to see what could have been better. I'd also recommend the AIM Solo GPS timer/logger so you can better understand what made certain laps better than others - with tyre degradation/track conditions its not always apparent. Any advantage worth a time saving is worth it - especially the free stuff like walking/cycling the track to start with and pre-race YouTube sessions!

My personal winter goal is a weight saving from me - the aim is to lose 1kg a month for the cycling event I do in the Alps - but the saving will benefit the motorsport too!

Veesix75
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Veesix75 »

Agree with Bryan regarding first seasons racing for Malcolm and Simon, you've been far more successful than I was in my first 2 years. My sprint isn't any quicker than your sprint and Sud, it's just track time. Simon lapped Cadwell faster than I did last year.

I like the ctcrc but clearly there are not enough cars in the up to 1600 class. We will always struggle against the 2 litre and above cars. If there were 10 or so in up to 1600 then we would get a good run.

If you compare your times to the similar class cars in pre 93 then you would be close to midfield.

I've enjoyed the hscc because it has such a mix of cars, the super quick ones at the front, right down to 5 or 6 seconds a lap behind me, always something to race. In fact Simons 1300 trofeo would be in the mix assuming the hscc guys would allow it in. Their invitation class allows 'coupes' so a 2 door sud might stretch that definition a bit, but some of the ctcrc cars joined in at Silverstone (firenzas and mk1 Capri), the Alfa's this year have been mine, alfetta gtv's and a couple of bertone coupes. The lancias have been a beta coupe and a Monte Carlo. It's as diverse as lotus elans and europas, Datsun 260z, Porsche 928 and 924, old tvr's and a couple of kit cars.

I'm hoping to join the hscc again next year assuming they will agree again to allowing me in the invitation class.

Marlow Sud
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Marlow Sud »

Hi Keith,

Class C is 1600 to 2500 so that is the main difference.
Then you have cars with 16V engines.
Also, you are only allowed the same number of chokes the car was built with.
The Escorts have two twin choke carbs and the Capris have to live with one massive twin choke carb.

All the best,
Simon

Marlow Sud
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Marlow Sud »

Hi Bryan,

Thanks for your wise words.
The main thing we are doing is upgrading the inboard brakes with vented discs and four pot calipers on the SC and Trofeo.
I had no worries about the Golf brakes. What I did learn was that the car could go round a corner an awful lot faster than I thought it could. I just had to be brave to go faster. There is a way to go in this respect. It is so helpful to have a test day before if you have never driven the circuit.
I bought an AIM solo for Snetterton and it was brilliant. I tried different lines etc and could see the difference instantly.
The cars are on a weight reduction program and Malcolm is having salad for lunch! I should be losing 7KG and I reckon the car will lose 25KG.
We really enjoyed ourselves last year, especially in the wet. Next year we have a new team member. Duncan will be racing the Sprint, Chris in the Golf Gti, Malcolm in the Alfasud SC and me in the Trofeo.

All the best,

Simon

Marlow Sud
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Marlow Sud »

Hi Tim,

Hoping you will join us at some time as its fun racing with you. The commentator liked seeing a red Sprint chasing your white one at Cadwell. We are going to stick with the CTCRC and hope to attract others to increase the numbers we can race with.

All the best,
Simon

Kegsti66
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Kegsti66 »

Cheers Simon, looks like next year will be busy.
Roll on :D

Veesix75
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Veesix75 »

Let me know if you get an early view of the ctcrc dates - you never know.

As for eating salads, I'd rather scrape under seal off with my finger nails than give up the chocolate biscuits ....and the fry ups.....and the everything else that is better than salad .

Roch 1490
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Roch 1490 »

Hi Guys hope you're all ok.I agree with all the comments above.I had the same problems Bryan had when I first raced the 164 160bhp 1200+ kg it struggled against 16v 33's from the production Class with 160bhp! but the slicks were fab & I drove it like a Sud but yes you could get done on the last straight/ last lap I remember having a great race with Bryan at Silverstone 2004 which came to an early end with Bryan having a contact lens problem!!.
The problem with the CTCRC is that we were found a hole to race in as this was AROC's effort for a race championship :lol: I suggested to Richard Murtha & John Wright (pre-83) that the Alfas had their own Class so it would be simple for any Alfa Racer to come & race,which was the previous format & did attract more Alfas than this year.Sadly there really wasn't any effort from AROC to make this work :roll: I enjoyed racing with the Pre-66 as the cars were better matched to our Suds.
Simon & Malcolm you have both driven well for your first season,Malcolm you were very good when it rained! & yes re- visiting circuits next year you will be quicker but I think both the Suds are fast enough in their current form & you should look to hone your driving/racing skills.If I could turn back the clock to my first couple of years racing I would have done a few track days at the more technical circuits (Brands,Oulton.Cadwell or Combe) with an instructor for the day,it s cheaper than adding BHP & stops you collecting all those bad habits (that I have! :) )
Cheers Ian.

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BS25
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by BS25 »

I remember that race Ian, Silverstone with one eye closed was far from ideal - I pulled into the pitlane to get the grit out of my eye - my Dad was so relieved it wasn't a car issue!

Marlow Sud
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Marlow Sud »

Hi Ian,

Good advice thanks. I think some instructor sessions is a great idea.

I know we all like to have a moan about the way things are organised but what keeps me in check is the thought of having to do the organising......... and people moaning at me if I were in that role. I think that the guys who do the organising are committed to doing their best and they work really hard for very little reward. I always think the Marshalls are pretty amazing too.

It would be great to have more drivers on the grid to race with. More Alfas of course but I would love to see some Fiats, Lancias etc. My points are that the regs could be more inclusive, classes by power/weight ratio and qualifying and the two races should be on the same day to reduce competitor costs. In fairness to the CTCRC, they sent out a survey to all members that looked very good. It will be interesting to see what changes that come out of that.

Hope we will see you at some of the meetings Ian. Always good to see you. We need you guys to show us how it is done.

All the best,
Simon

Marlow Sud
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Re: Snetterton 19/20 Sept

Post by Marlow Sud »

Will do on the dates Tim.
Wine is going to be tough to give up. And percy pigs!

Brgds,
Simon

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