AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

An area for Alfa Racers to share their experiences and plans, along with technical specs and details (if willing!) of their beloved cars.
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BS25
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by BS25 »

alfatwo wrote:
Ted27sud wrote:
alfatwo wrote:In all the years I was racing, the Nick Humphries prepped Suds were always the quickest

Dave
Ah, sorry Dave, but I'm going to have to contradict you there but I also admit to being ever so slightly biased!

Ted
Ok Ted, the other two that come to mind are Nick Sismay's and the parts box Sud from Cubley's

I saw that a few years ago, it was in a terrible state!

Dave
This was early 80's Dave (remember it all well even though I was young) - this was whilst we (BLS) were rallying modified Suds. You'll remember Mark Riddle doing the odd circuit race in his Sud in rally spec before BLS converted it to circuit spec (and supercharged it) to run at the front of the AROC series for several years (Sud then being re-built into a 33 following an off). BLS also prepared Charles Hills class winning Class F Sud, Ted's Sud for multiple overall championship wins, Andy Curtis' class winning 33, my Class winning Sud and then 33 (that is still winning now). Not forgetting Vic Woods 3.3 GTV6 (that Chris Snowdon went on to dominate the Championship with for several years) and Graham Presley's 75 turbo....I've got a big list of our summarised results and drivers - I'll dig it out and post it on here over the weekend sometime.

Ted27sud
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by Ted27sud »

Thanks Bryan, I was, of course referring to the man who has prepared my car over the years - countless starts, countless laps at 8000 RPM and never so much as a miss fire in nearly 30 years.
Ted

junior
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by junior »

alfatwo wrote:
junior wrote:Nick Sismay worked on my car, did he work on many back then ?
Not really, his dad used to do all the work on the race cars


Dave
Ah yes, your correct it was his father. Getting confused. :roll:

Phil Rowley
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by Phil Rowley »

BS25 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:25 pm
Going back further:-

Phil Rowley - Sud Ti
Alan Marshall - Sud Ti (rebuilt into a 33)
John Liddle - Sud Ti (rebuilt into 33 'Partsbox')
Andrew Thorpe - Sud Ti (ex Napolina Dealer Team car)

There are others.....
I'm still alive and kicking, but not an Alfa owner since having a 75 V6 in the late 80's.
My Alfasud racer, which was originally my 1979 1.5ti road car registration FRP466T, was prepared by Rob Kirby of the Alfa Dealer Team and the engine built by RS Race Engineering.
I ran it in the AROC race series from 1982 to 1986 before retiring to concentrate on my career.
I'll dig out some pictures of it and post them when I work out how to do it.

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KevJTD
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by KevJTD »

Phil Rowley wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:56 pm
BS25 wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:25 pm
Going back further:-

Phil Rowley - Sud Ti
Alan Marshall - Sud Ti (rebuilt into a 33)
John Liddle - Sud Ti (rebuilt into 33 'Partsbox')
Andrew Thorpe - Sud Ti (ex Napolina Dealer Team car)

There are others.....
I'm still alive and kicking, but not an Alfa owner since having a 75 V6 in the late 80's.
My Alfasud racer, which was originally my 1979 1.5ti road car registration FRP466T, was prepared by Rob Kirby of the Alfa Dealer Team and the engine built by RS Race Engineering.
I ran it in the AROC race series from 1982 to 1986 before retiring to concentrate on my career.
I'll dig out some pictures of it and post them when I work out how to do it.
Thanks for joining up Phil, I'm sure I speak for many when I say I'd like to hear, and see more about the sud 8-)
And 75 :D
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rsfruitbat
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by rsfruitbat »

I'm still alive and kicking, but not an Alfa owner since having a 75 V6 in the late 80's.
My Alfasud racer, which was originally my 1979 1.5ti road car registration FRP466T, was prepared by Rob Kirby of the Alfa Dealer Team and the engine built by RS Race Engineering.
I ran it in the AROC race series from 1982 to 1986 before retiring to concentrate on my career.
I'll dig out some pictures of it and post them when I work out how to do it.
[/quote]

I nearly fell off my chair when I read this.

I bought FRP466T in the late 80's and at that time it was prepped for road rallying. Regs changed and outlawed all the fibregalss panels so I bought it and converted it for stage rallying.

originally it was white with a yellow and blue stripe when I bought it

rsfruitbat

rsfruitbat
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by rsfruitbat »

couple of pics
one of the first pictures I have of the Sud taken at Enstone in 1988 I think
early FRP.jpg
This is how she looked after a rebuild following an indiscretion. This was at Burwarton in mid 1990 I think
FRP burwarton.jpg

Kegsti66
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by Kegsti66 »

Great photos Adie.
Love the first one pulling hard. :D

Phil Rowley
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by Phil Rowley »

When I packed up racing I couldn't sell the car as a going concern as no one was interested.
My chum and fellow racer John Liddle from Cubley's of Ainsdale suggested breaking it for parts and that's what I intended to do.
The car had fully rose jointed suspension, modded front struts to take 2.25" springs etc all that was done by LeDa Suspension in Essex.
The bodyshell had been lightened and steel panels replaced with Trofeo Cup fibreglass ones. Glass except the windscreen had been replaced by polycarbonate.
Before I had a chance to strip it apart I had a panic phonecall out of the blue from a guy called Dixon, can't remember if his first name was Dave or Richard, he wanted a bodyshell in a hurry to rebuild his Sud rally car he'd totalled. He came down from East Yorkshire with a trailer and ended up buying the entire rolling bodyshell, far more than he intended and it saved me job.

I can't remember if the engine was included in the sale, when it last ran it was fitted with a pair of ex ARDT Weber 48 IDA carbs, it put out 140bhp on the RS Race Engineering engine dyno.

Phil Rowley
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by Phil Rowley »

Outright win at Donnington Park.
FB_IMG_1507619286028.jpg
Just about on two wheels at Oulton Park
FB_IMG_1508400781948.jpg
Passing Rob Giordinelli's GTA on the entry to the hairpin at Mallory Park.
FB_IMG_1507619318284.jpg

rsfruitbat
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by rsfruitbat »

Phil Rowley wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 2:46 pm
When I packed up racing I couldn't sell the car as a going concern as no one was interested.
My chum and fellow racer John Liddle from Cubley's of Ainsdale suggested breaking it for parts and that's what I intended to do.
The car had fully rose jointed suspension, modded front struts to take 2.25" springs etc all that was done by LeDa Suspension in Essex.
The bodyshell had been lightened and steel panels replaced with Trofeo Cup fibreglass ones. Glass except the windscreen had been replaced by polycarbonate.
Before I had a chance to strip it apart I had a panic phonecall out of the blue from a guy called Dixon, can't remember if his first name was Dave or Richard, he wanted a bodyshell in a hurry to rebuild his Sud rally car he'd totalled. He came down from East Yorkshire with a trailer and ended up buying the entire rolling bodyshell, far more than he intended and it saved me job.

I can't remember if the engine was included in the sale, when it last ran it was fitted with a pair of ex ARDT Weber 48 IDA carbs, it put out 140bhp on the RS Race Engineering engine dyno.
I bought the car from Lepleys in Whitchurch. in the late 80's.
Car was as you can see in its yellow / blue / white livery.
it still had the rosejointed rear suspension (which I still have ) but was on standard size springs, same at the front, no 2.25"
Engine was an 8valve on a single carb which was all they were allowed in road rallying.
Fibregalss panels were still there but no big arches. twin headlights replaced by singles
Car had had a few indiscretions N/S rear 3/4 had a had a good smack and had been knocked out and filled. Worst was the roof which had 3/4" of filler in it which I discovered when we replaced the roof when it had its 2 blues rebuild. I don't think the guy you sold it to looked after it as we ll as you did.
Was the guy who built it for you the person who put the Broadspeed plaque under the bonnet?
i'll see if I have any more pics in the yellow and blue

rsfruitbat

Phil Rowley
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by Phil Rowley »

Rob Kirby one of the Alfa Romeo Dealer Team drivers, who owned a vehicle workshop in Newport Essex, converted the car from road going into a racer to British Saloon Car Championship Group 1.5 spec the same as the ARDT cars, with the engine, as previously mentioned, built by RS Race Engineering.

The lightening work and fitting of Trofeo panels was carried out by me and Nigel Cottee, also an AROC racer, at his workshop in Nottingham a couple of years later.

I had an excursion into the barriers at the bottom of Paddock Hill at Brands Hatch desperately trying to avoid T boning an errant GTV6 stalled broadside across the track on the second lap of the race. Autosport magazine printed a series of photos of the incident caught by a photographer as it occurred.

It left the rear passenger side a little crumpled. When we sorted the damage out we also cut out the spare wheel well in the boot floor, that was a hefty lump of metal. We welded in a cross brace and put in an aluminium sheet to replace the boot floor.

When I had the car on the road I had a glass sunroof cassette fitted, they were all the rage back in the day. Obviously it had to go and Rob removed it, welded a steel panel to the underside of the roof and levelled it off with a skim coat of filler before respraying the roof black.

I know nothing of the Broadspeed logo that was after my ownership.

rsfruitbat
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by rsfruitbat »

Thanks for all that info Phil. It explains some things. I am trying to remember whether he had welded a spare Wheel well back in it.
Looks like you got some very good results with it.

The guy you sold it to actually won one road rally outright in it.

When I deserve it the car broke down with a curling problem and had to be recovered. Even with that I agreed tobuy it if they could sort the problem out.
First event was a venue called Wheaton Aston just outside wolverhampton. Side engine mounting rubber came out and broke the main cotton feel engine mounting.
We campaigned the car in the AWMMC championship for quite a few yrs.
In the early 90's i got a 33 shell and decided to build that up into a tarmac rally car. Still kept hold of the Sud until the late 90's. Friend of mine was after the FG panels for his rally car so I sold him FRP. When he got it it was actually a much better shell than his so he put his engine and running gear in her. Not long after she was sold on again.
Sometime over the next few yrs I understand that she may have had a reshell and believe she was sold to someone on the isle of man where I think she still lives.
Do you remember the Sud with the twin V6 engines? Fairly sure the FG panels ended up on that
What made you change direction and what did you go into After FRP?

Rsfruitbat

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LooLooSud33Spider
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by LooLooSud33Spider »

I knew Rob Kirby quite well when he drove for the Dealer team. One time I remember quite vividly Was that the Btcc used to have a double header Event with a race at Oulton on A Saturday and then we’d all Race down Overnight to Thruxton where we would qualify on the Sunday for a race on Bank holiday Monday This particular season One of the GTVs (not sure if it was Robs or John Dooleys). had a gearbox problem at Oulton but we needed to hit the road to Be at Thruxton ASAP. as soon as we got to the circuit around 5am we had the car out of the transporter and up in the air and started to pull the box out and ready to qualify. Whilst doing this a pair of legs appeared and started to talk to Dad who was overseeing the swap with Dealer team stalwart Tiny Coston (he was actually 6”4) It was only later Dad told me the legs belonged to Dickie Davies of World of sport fame. Apparently He was very impressed to see this 12 yo getting stuck in and helping to get the job done ! good old days indeed .
Lou.
1983 1350 Sud Ti (soon to be 1500)
1996 33 1.7 16v racer
1997 916 spider 20v Turbo racer
1973 Mg Midget
1955 Austin A30 “S”
2006 Porsche Cayman S
2012 Skoda Octavia Vrs
2006 Peugeot motorhome

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LooLooSud33Spider
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by LooLooSud33Spider »

We originally aquired our class C 33 in the mid 90s From a chap called Alistair Sames from Blackburn he had been using Alywn Kershaw in York apparently it was built from a race sud (class unknown but they Reshelled it in to a 33 With all glass and steel panels) possibly after an accident ? . I have no further knowledge of who’s car it was prior to Alistair. He raced it as #43 And I retained that number. Knowing how the championship was run there’s a good chance #43 Was allocated to a certain driver for a long time.
Does anyone have any knowledge of who may have raced a Sud #43 in the AROC/Chris knott. Championship in the late 80s/90s I’d like to know
Lou.
1983 1350 Sud Ti (soon to be 1500)
1996 33 1.7 16v racer
1997 916 spider 20v Turbo racer
1973 Mg Midget
1955 Austin A30 “S”
2006 Porsche Cayman S
2012 Skoda Octavia Vrs
2006 Peugeot motorhome

Gary Orchard
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by Gary Orchard »

Just had a quick look at some old race day programs from 1986/87 and then 1991/92/93 and the only number 43 I could find was in 1992
Frank Manning raced with that number in Class F in the AROC championship so not a modified car

There were also Sud's racing in the Slick 50 series and the Italian Intermarque series

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LooLooSud33Spider
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by LooLooSud33Spider »

Thanks Gary. According to ARCA archives Frank Manning raced for 7yrs from 86-93 so that timeframe stacks up. Alistair first raced the car in 94. We ran it for him In 95 and Then we took it off his hands when he retired I did my First race in 96. It came to us with an 1800 8v on 48s. Not a Class F spec engine But it has a Sud cage and im pretty sure it had inboard brakes. We rebuilt the engine twice. I still have the engine and the original 89mm block that was fitted when Alistair raced the car .
1983 1350 Sud Ti (soon to be 1500)
1996 33 1.7 16v racer
1997 916 spider 20v Turbo racer
1973 Mg Midget
1955 Austin A30 “S”
2006 Porsche Cayman S
2012 Skoda Octavia Vrs
2006 Peugeot motorhome

Veesix75
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by Veesix75 »

And the class F sud raced by Frank Manning became my class F race sud under number 68, which is the also same sud shell that Dave bought from me and put back on the road.

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LooLooSud33Spider
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by LooLooSud33Spider »

Ok thanks Tim That would tend to eliminate my 33 being Franks car reshelled. The only reason I considered that was the number 43 that Gary mentioned Frank raced under.
The mystery continues as my car did have a modified engine when I got it Would indicate it may be a reshelled class “B” Sud. Mmmm but who’s ????
1983 1350 Sud Ti (soon to be 1500)
1996 33 1.7 16v racer
1997 916 spider 20v Turbo racer
1973 Mg Midget
1955 Austin A30 “S”
2006 Porsche Cayman S
2012 Skoda Octavia Vrs
2006 Peugeot motorhome

garygecko
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by garygecko »

By coincidence I actually bought two ex Frank Manning Cars. One back in the early 90s which I reshelled into another sud and then reshelled again into a 33 after a big crash at Quarry. The second car I purchased direct from Frank in the late 90s and is the one I sold to Veesix75.

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LooLooSud33Spider
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by LooLooSud33Spider »

Gary. Could my 33 be the one you built after the quarry crash ? Did you sell it around 93 ish. If so who too ???
1983 1350 Sud Ti (soon to be 1500)
1996 33 1.7 16v racer
1997 916 spider 20v Turbo racer
1973 Mg Midget
1955 Austin A30 “S”
2006 Porsche Cayman S
2012 Skoda Octavia Vrs
2006 Peugeot motorhome

garygecko
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by garygecko »

I did sell it around 93, 94 ish. It was originally a red car that we sprayed purple if you have seen any paint layers.

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LooLooSud33Spider
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by LooLooSud33Spider »

I reshelled it again around 97 and I have a vague recollection of seeing some red. As I dismantled it But the whole car had been painted white. Cage an all I don’t recall seeing any purple can you remember who you sold it to. Also what spec was the engine. Its also been reshelled twice since I’ve had it
1983 1350 Sud Ti (soon to be 1500)
1996 33 1.7 16v racer
1997 916 spider 20v Turbo racer
1973 Mg Midget
1955 Austin A30 “S”
2006 Porsche Cayman S
2012 Skoda Octavia Vrs
2006 Peugeot motorhome

garygecko
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by garygecko »

3 new shells but still the same old car :lol: It was Class F spec when I sold it. I honestly have no idea who to. He hadn't raced before so I didn't know him and I stopped following motorsport for a bit after that.

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LooLooSud33Spider
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Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by LooLooSud33Spider »

I’m not saying it’s you old car Gary sometimes it’s nice to know where some of the components come from
It’s Definitely a bit like Triggers Broom.
1983 1350 Sud Ti (soon to be 1500)
1996 33 1.7 16v racer
1997 916 spider 20v Turbo racer
1973 Mg Midget
1955 Austin A30 “S”
2006 Porsche Cayman S
2012 Skoda Octavia Vrs
2006 Peugeot motorhome

garygecko
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Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2016 3:52 am

Re: AROC Class B Alfasuds (Where are they now?)

Post by garygecko »

I think AROC have put all the old magazines online. If you're a member you can go back and look through old race reports. Michael Lindsay would often mention new drivers and the history of their cars if they had any. Good luck.

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