30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Johnboy
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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

Post by Johnboy »

That sounds about rite, spend millions on upgrades .then scrap them :roll:
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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Johnboy wrote:That sounds about rite, spend millions on upgrades .then scrap them :roll:
The story of the entire British aerospace industry really.

SR-177, Avro 730, TSR-2, Hawker P1138, Blue Streak, Black Arrow, MUSTARD, HOTOL...

Like you guys, I loved the Lightning too. I didn't understand until much later why it was superceded. As for retiring the Harrier, in favour of the F-36 (called the "Lightning II" of all things), if we had seen the P1138 through we would have had a supersonic VTOL aircraft in service for more than 30 years!

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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Don't get me started on the tsr2 :evil: what a plane! And could you imagine a mk2 lightning :o but as usual we have to but yank stuff :roll:
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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Johnboy wrote:Don't get me started on the tsr2 :evil: what a plane! And could you imagine a mk2 lightning :o but as usual we have to but yank stuff :roll:
At least we (used to) put decent engines in 'em :D

I think an RN Phantom held the transatlantic record until the SR-71 came over to Farnborough in '74. I remember watching that on telly.

I'm a big fan of hypersonic aircraft - it is the first step into space, after all :lol:

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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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I do despair about the decisions taken by our " leaders" regarding defence in general.

I well remember sitting in an AMP meeting some years ago when the very senior person speaking said that the RAF strength would never drop below 120,00 as long as he had an hole in is 'arris...........

Wonder how his constipation is doing.

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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Nige005 wrote:I do despair about the decisions taken by our " leaders" regarding defence in general.

I well remember sitting in an AMP meeting some years ago when the very senior person speaking said that the RAF strength would never drop below 120,000 as long as he had an hole in is 'arris...........

Wonder how his constipation is doing.
he must be well bunged up now its at 30,000! My father used used to talk of the days when it was 1,000,000 strong!

Its not all doom and gloom (though most of it is!), I'm encouraged by those industrious types working on the Skylon project - real ground breaking stuff and British (for now at least!), I gather most of the team originated from the HOTOL programme. If they can bring it off then it will leapfrog our aerospace transportation industry back to pole position - I hope!
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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Bluesuit wrote:
Nige005 wrote:I do despair about the decisions taken by our " leaders" regarding defence in general.

I well remember sitting in an AMP meeting some years ago when the very senior person speaking said that the RAF strength would never drop below 120,000 as long as he had an hole in is 'arris...........

Wonder how his constipation is doing.
he must be well bunged up now its at 30,000! My father used used to talk of the days when it was 1,000,000 strong!

Its not all doom and gloom (though most of it is!), I'm encouraged by those industrious types working on the Skylon project - real ground breaking stuff and British (for now at least!), I gather most of the team originated from the HOTOL programme. If they can bring it off then it will leapfrog our aerospace transportation industry back to pole position - I hope!

Lets hope it doesn't fall foul of Defence Initiatives, otherwise known as cuts......

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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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the only thing likely to change that is Vlad the Invader, and even then I'm not sure!
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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Bluesuit wrote:the only thing likely to change that is Vlad the Invader, and even then I'm not sure!

:lol:

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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Another one bites the dust - The RAF has just retired another classic: the Tristar, the last ones have been parked up at Kemble in the hope there will be a buyer, but as there is only 1 other Tristar flying (Orbital Sciences) it seems unlikely. So last year we lost the VC-10 (Queen of Skies) after 50 years service (can't believe they cut most of them up - one should have gone to Duxford), and also the C-130K after 47 years service (8 in a Hangar at St Athan and up for sale, 1 careful owner and still in excellent condition), next up to go, Sea King, Tornado, Tucano and god help us the C-130J (unless sense prevails!).

Meanwhile, more forces gather on the borders of Ukraine....
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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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I loved the VC10, a classic aircraft, shame I never got to fly in one. There again, I could say the same thing about the Ilyushin IL-62...

I passed up the opportunity to buy a copy of "Silent Swift Superb" a few years ago, now its out of print and commanding up to £200 a copy. So I can't even look at pictures of my favourite airliner (after Concorde, obviously) :(

Now the Lockheed L1011 Tristar I have flown in, although a package holiday to the Balearics (seated in the middle row at the back) isn't the best way to appreciate such an aircraft :lol:

Meanwhile, over in the good ol' US of A, the venerable B-52 is still flying - and with the final B-52H completed in 1963, the most recent airframes have been in continuous service for more than 50 years, and are expected to continue on until the 2040s!!!

Why can't we just upgrade our aircraft, instead of buying expensive new (foreign) ones???

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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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I had the pleasure and privilege of a number of flights in the VC10 Tankers in my first job, got some great air to air photos of fighters refuelling somewhere. Great looking and robust aircraft if not quite the commercial success that the Boeing 707 was.
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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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The last 707's I had anything to do with were the Sentry's at Waddo, actually had to attend the official Roll Out, complete in twot hat.......

Was offered many a flight in these but resisted as the risk of getting stranded miles from home was very high. Plus I didn't really fancy flying in something that had no windows in the back.

Great fun flying the Sim though as after you had piled it in to the grass near ish to the runway you could walk out of the back and have a coffee whilst still completely unscathed !

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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Bluesuit wrote:I had the pleasure and privilege of a number of flights in the VC10 Tankers in my first job, got some great air to air photos of fighters refuelling somewhere. Great looking and robust aircraft if not quite the commercial success that the Boeing 707 was.
From what I understand, that was down to the way BOAC specified the aircraft, for the "Empire", later "Commonwealth" routes. In short, taking off out of Nairobi airport (elevation 1,624m) in temperatures of 40C with a full load of passengers and luggage, I doubt a 707 could manage that. Power margins on the Conways were such that the VC10 remains the fastest transatlantic airliner after Concorde.

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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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I was flown in a VC10 from Cairo to London back in the late 70's and it was fantastic - very fast and quiet. We also had a Paris to London via the Bristol Channel on Concorde just before the Paris crash - fantastic experience but the cabin was about the same diameter as a Viscount......and the windows were much smaller!

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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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I see the press are trying to make a big deal about the Russian bears probing are airspace . Been going on for years as you chaps know :roll:
Great shot tho 8-) and this lightning is still preserved :mrgreen:
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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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This reminds me about 29 Sqn markings.

The story goes that when the Squadron was kitted out with new aircraft back when Pontius was a pilot the 'airey 'arsed old Chief set a young lad to paint the "29 " number on the new aircraft. He instructed him to paint " 29 " in Roman numerals on to the nose of each aircraft.

" But Chief, I don't know me Roman numerals " said he.

" It's easy son, just two " X " then one " 1X ", have you got that ? "

" Gottit Chief. " and off he went with his little brush and tin of red paint.

To this day the markings are still as shown below.
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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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:lol: love it . I guess the chief saw the funny side of it :D
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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Johnboy wrote::lol: love it . I guess the chief saw the funny side of it :D

:) Dunno about the CO though, the tale didn't say !

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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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good story!

I love the old yellow ground equipment - much more cheerful than the drab green. I had the good fortune to visit RAAF Butterworth in Malaysia in the late 1980s when we took a VC-10K3 over there for a 2 week detachment. When we arrived we were staggered to see they had the same kit, but by then in somewhat faded yellow that the RAF had left behind when they closed down the Far East Air Force and pulled out in the 1970s.
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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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56 Sqn & 74 Sqn F-4s in 1991 - they also used to stand southern QRA at Wattisham to take turns chasing the BEARs
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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Great photos 8-) saw a photo of f4's escorting a bear away
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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Johnboy wrote:I see the press are trying to make a big deal about the Russian bears probing are airspace
I guess the difference today is that our aircraft struggle to keep up!

Great pictures everyone!

Speaking of bright colour schemes, I've always loved "anti-flash white" used by the V-bombers. Apparently some studies performed in the early 1960s concluded that the uniform white finish wouldn't reflect even a small fraction of the energy generated by a nuclear explosion, and the proliferation of SAMs had forced everyone down onto the deck anyway, so DPM was order of the day... :|

Just think how much nicer XH558 would look in white 8-)

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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Hi
Yeah would be cool in white again 8-) I'll have to get my spray gun out :lol:
Was awesome to see her last year at manston. She was there for the week 8-) 8-) 8-)
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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Johnboy wrote:Hi
Yeah would be cool in white again 8-) I'll have to get my spray gun out :lol:
Was awesome to see her last year at manston. She was there for the week 8-) 8-) 8-)
is that manston, australia :roll:

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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Yeah looks that way :lol:
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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Nice one Kev - you beat me to it.

I was lucky enough to spend a couple of weeks at Waddington a few months before the last Sqn of Vulcans were disbanded, sadly didn't get a trip in one though, but did get to do a bit of spannering on one. Also got a day trip up to Binbrook to see the lightning's first line engineering operations, basic and crude by today's standards, but as our US friends say - awesome!
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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Awesome indeed :D both amazing aircraft , with the threat of manston sadly closing because of an evil bitch who bought the airport for the land . Xh588 will never return :evil: there is a glimmer of hope . But I'm not holding my breath . Sadly my euro million numbers didn't come up last night :(
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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Bluesuit wrote:good story!

I love the old yellow ground equipment - much more cheerful than the drab green. I had the good fortune to visit RAAF Butterworth in Malaysia in the late 1980s when we took a VC-10K3 over there for a 2 week detachment. When we arrived we were staggered to see they had the same kit, but by then in somewhat faded yellow that the RAF had left behind when they closed down the Far East Air Force and pulled out in the 1970s.

:) I was thinking the same about the GSE colours.

I have a feeling, a memory, which could well be wrong, that not only the GSE colours but the airfield buildings were different colours. I have it in mind that in the early 70's colours on front line stations were moving quickly to green whilst on other Stations things like the ILS buildings and Runway Caravans were still in red and white checks, I assume to give the less experienced jockeys something to aim for............ :shock:

Things didn't seem too serious back then. I worked in Ground Radio at Wattisham and our " Air Raid Shelter " was the glass corridor between GRSF and EES whilst our slit trenches were conscientiously denoted by white canvas tape pinned to the grass outside ! Didn't have many exercises back then and as soon as the hooter went off, Fred, the Comms Chief, retired to our sizeable broom cupboard with a bench stool and the Sun and refused to emerge until it was all over, usually less than three hours.

Of course if the Hooter went off after hours you could usually beat the closing of the exit gate from AMQ's and then spend the next few hours down at the Barking Fox before nonchalantly wandering back in to camp after closing time, all innocent like.

Remember an after hours call out and going to Alter ATC which was in an old caravan between two blast walls on a disused Dispersal and trying to fix the UHF Pack Set which was located in an old and rotten wooden crate outside. It was pitch black and using the old green right angled torches which were all we had I couldn't see a bloody thing never mind fix it. Reported to the ATCO who said " Don't worry Nige, lets all bugger off back to the Tower, much more comfortable there " and that was it, no Alter ATC that night !

I'm pleased to report that I played my part in keeping you all safe back then, sure that you slept well knowing that you Air Force was awake.

As for QRA, well tales for another time perhaps. :)

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Re: 30 years of Alfas, well almost!

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Minevals, maxevals and Tacevals, all a bit different in the 80s and 90s, I usually spent 12 hours locked in a HAS with a rubber face on for most of it.

Things only livened up when we had some scrap F-4s to practice ac recovery on, by then I used to set up the engineering 'injects' and the troops used to like a bigger challenge each time. Last one ended up with one flat on its belly and only a small a crane to recover it, so it required some ingenuity to get it back on its undercarriage without overloading the crane. But the guys loved it and learned some useful techniques - much better than doing nothing!
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